D&D 5E Third Level Thief Ability

[I'm A Banana]

The Thief Archetype has the following third level abilities:

Fa s t H a n d s
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action
granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity
(Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves’ tools to
disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an
Object action.

S e c o n d - S t o r y W o r k
W hen you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain
the ability to climb faster than normal; clim bing no
longer costs you extra movement.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the
distance you cover increases by a num ber of feet equal
to your Dexterity modifier.


Would removing them and allowing a NONCOMBAT feat be "balanced"? To me, these seems pretty much the equivalent to a feat with three situational bonuses (two involving movement and one allowing an additional option for your bonus action).

Feats are generally more powerful than individual subclass abilities. Subclasses are largely in the realm of "this is worth about 4-8 points of damage per round, or isn't combat related." A feat can be quite a bit bigger - even a "+1 to attack and damage rolls" is generally more powerful than most subclass abilities.

So it would be an upgrade. By a bit. Not, like, a HUGE amount, but a bit. Noticeable when compared to other subclasses (if you had an assassin, they'd probably be jealous, for instance).

 

[ChrisCarlson]

My first question has to be, "What's a non-combat feat?"

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

No. Feats are inherently unbalanced. Anything that allows a character to take more feats will only worsen that imbalance.

Also, I strongly advise against giving your players XP/levels. PCs gaining levels will unbalance your game even faster than feats. Most campaigns that end prematurely can be traced directly to DMs who let PCs level up over third level.

;-)

 

[trentonjoe]

My first question has to be, "What's a non-combat feat?"

I was going through them today and found a few:

The always know where you are feat
Learn three skills
The actor one

I think were 2 or 3 more than didn't basically couldn't be used in combat.

 

[TerraDave]

The Thief Archetype has the following third level abilities:

Fa s t H a n d s
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action
granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity
(Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves’ tools to
disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an
Object action.

S e c o n d - S t o r y W o r k
W hen you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain
the ability to climb faster than normal; clim bing no
longer costs you extra movement.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the
distance you cover increases by a num ber of feet equal
to your Dexterity modifier.


Would removing them and allowing a NONCOMBAT feat be "balanced"? To me, these seems pretty much the equivalent to a feat with three situational bonuses (two involving movement and one allowing an additional option for your bonus action).

I have seen some of this in play. Obviously situational but they can certainly be used, including in crucial situations. And they make a thief feel more thiefy. But yes, less powerful then a 5E feat, which we know are quite powerful.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

I was going through them today and found a few:

The always know where you are feat
Learn three skills
The actor one

I think were 2 or 3 more than didn't basically couldn't be used in combat.

Couldn't? Are you sure?

What if the three skills chosen were Athletics, Acrobatics and Intimidate? I see all three skills regularly used in combat scenes.

 

[Mistwell]

Take the Healer feat, use it with Fast Hands in combat to heal people as a bonus action, and love your Fast Hands ability.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It is actually genrally more useful than the assasinate ability. Assassinate sounds great on paper, but it is very unreliable, because usually you don´t get surprise in combats that involve your whole group. Only if you actually sneak up on the enemy and even then it is not assured that you win initiative.

The healer feat can be read in two ways. One that allows you to heal someone as a bonus action and one that does not. It surely allows you to stabilize as a bonus action which is the more useful application of the feat. On the other hand, I would assume you need two hands to handle the healer kit so most probably you need to use all your actions anyway. However you can use the bonus action to take the healer´s kit out of your backpack and then use your action to heal someone.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Given how constraining the Action Economy is, being able to use a Bonus Action to do something that normally requires an Action is pretty powerful.

Imagine an invisible Thief moving to a foe. The Thief picks the foe's pocket (using their Bonus Action) then becomes invisible again, perhaps by drinking a potion (using their Action) then moves off.

 

[Inconnunom]

Given how constraining the Action Economy is, being able to use a Bonus Action to do something that normally requires an Action is pretty powerful.

Imagine an invisible Thief moving to a foe. The Thief picks the foe's pocket (using their Bonus Action) then becomes invisible again, perhaps by drinking a potion (using their Action) then moves off.

fyi, picking pockets isn't an attack or spell so would not break invisibility.