This Worries Me a Little...

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
This isn't a question of the current edition of D&D, so I've moved it to the TTRPG General Forum.

Unless he's the SJW type that views everything as "problematic,"....

Folks engaging in this thread should review our policies concerning inclusivity before posting. Please see our Terms and rules.

In this case, use of pejorative terms like "SJW" to indicate that a person's views can be dismissed is not appropriate.

Keep it respectful, folks, and everything should be fine.

 

[Ukko the Scribe]

Blackface is considered problematic because it has historically been used by white people to either ridicule or co-opt Black/African/Non-white peoples or cultures.

Camoflage is not problematic. as @not-so-newguy put it, intent matters.

If you are going to have conversations with any of your players though, I would recommend you further check yourself for bias and your own prejudices.

Your OP in this thread uses what can come across as coded racist language in spots. What is this "dark continent" you refer to? Do you mean Africa? Assuming so based upon the context of the rest of your post. Sorry, but that is a red flag worse than your original question about camoflage being blackface. Referring to Africa as the "Dark Continent" has been used in racist, colonialist and imperialist screeds for the better part of three centuries now.

It may not be your intent, but something you really should look at before continuing down this path.

I too was afraid my own wording would be seen as part of the problem and won't go any further there, but felt I had to say something in order to ask for advice about it.

I think I was overreacting to something that could easily be put another way.

They're just being sneaky with body paint...

 

[Ukko the Scribe]

Mod Note:
This isn't a question of the current edition of D&D, so I've moved it to the TTRPG General Forum.



Folks engaging in this thread should review our policies concerning inclusivity before posting. Please see our Terms and rules.

In this case, use of pejorative terms like "SJW" to indicate that a person's views can be dismissed is not appropriate.

Keep it respectful, folks, and everything should be fine.

Actually, I thought I did post this to the general D&D section here...

 

[Umbran]

Actually, I thought I did post this to the general D&D section here...

The top D&D forum is about the most current ruleset (whatever that is at the time). We have an "Older Editions" forum for previous editions (4e and before), and a TTRPG General for other games and RPG generalities.

This discussion has nothing to do with the rules engine, and seems more about the social issues around playing, so I slid it into this more general space.

If you have further questions about moderation, then, per the Terms and Rules I linked above, please take those to PM with a moderator, rather than put them in-thread. Thanks.

 

[Hand of Evil]

It bothers me because it is so little information, I mean they paint themselves "black". It would be better to say they 'wear a mask of a dark beast/demon to instill fear as assassins". So little detail and failure in 'world building'.

 

[Dire Bare]

Blackface is considered problematic because it has historically been used by white people to either ridicule or co-opt Black/African/Non-white peoples or cultures.

Camoflage is not problematic. as @not-so-newguy put it, intent matters.

If you are going to have conversations with any of your players though, I would recommend you further check yourself for bias and your own prejudices.

Your OP in this thread uses what can come across as coded racist language in spots. What is this "dark continent" you refer to? Do you mean Africa? Assuming so based upon the context of the rest of your post. Sorry, but that is a red flag worse than your original question about camoflage being blackface. Referring to Africa as the "Dark Continent" has been used in racist, colonialist and imperialist screeds for the better part of three centuries now.

It may not be your intent, but something you really should look at before continuing down this path.

You're right on with minstrel blackface being racist, but dark camouflage being okay. Thanks for addressing that so clearly!

But relax a bit on calling out the OP on using terms like "dark continent" for Africa. You're right, that these terms are colonialist and should be avoided, but not everyone is aware of the history behind these types of terms yet. Educate, but don't assume malice or racist bias.

 

[Ukko the Scribe]

I guess my real problem now is trying to accommodate this fellow who no doubt might like to play a character much like himself. (At a Risk, of posting the rest of this comment to the wrong part of the forum again....) I think he might like to play a racial outsider to the four Tribes of the Earth-Goddess only posing as one of them in a clever disguise. Seeing as this adventure (The Invulnerable-King/The Teeth of the Moon-Sow) is just for the members of the Fir-Domain-Tribe. Yet, no character creation rules have been made for Slaine the Role-Playing-Game of Celtic-Heroes to deal with that. I think as a unwritten rule, Those Celts, especially those ones who lived in the north, were an insular lot.

Could anybody help me out with that?

 

[Retreater]

I guess my real problem now is trying to accommodate this fellow who no doubt might like to play a character much like himself. (At a Risk, of posting the rest of this comment to the wrong part of the forum again....) I think he might like to play a racial outsider to the four Tribes of the Earth-Goddess only posing as one of them in a clever disguise. Seeing as this adventure (The Invulnerable-King/The Teeth of the Moon-Sow) is just for the members of the Fir-Domain-Tribe. Yet, no character creation rules have been made for Slaine the Role-Playing-Game of Celtic-Heroes to deal with that. I think as a unwritten rule, Those Celts, especially those ones who lived in the north, were an insular lot.

Could anybody help me out with that?

For possible inspiration, read the book "Eaters of the Dead" by Michael Crichton (or watch the less good movie "The 13th Warrior.") Both follow the adventures of a Middle Eastern man in a Viking setting in the Dark Ages.

What I'd really suggest, more as a general idea, is to get ALL your players to buy-in on the campaign concept. If they don't want to play Celts in a Celtic campaign, maybe try a different game/system. Ultimately, if the setting makes one of your players feel like an outsider, unwelcome, etc., there are so many others to try.

 

[Dire Bare]

I guess my real problem now is trying to accommodate this fellow who no doubt might like to play a character much like himself. (At a Risk, of posting the rest of this comment to the wrong part of the forum again....) I think he might like to play a racial outsider to the four Tribes of the Earth-Goddess only posing as one of them in a clever disguise. Seeing as this adventure (The Invulnerable-King/The Teeth of the Moon-Sow) is just for the members of the Fir-Domain-Tribe. Yet, no character creation rules have been made for Slaine the Role-Playing-Game of Celtic-Heroes to deal with that. I think as a unwritten rule, Those Celts, especially those ones who lived in the north, were an insular lot.

Could anybody help me out with that?

I'm not familiar with the Slaine roleplaying game, but . . . .

Broadly, a character trying to disguises themselves as another race, ethnicity, or culture isn't necessarily problematic in itself . . . it depends on HOW it's done. Fantasy and sci-fi fiction is full of this sort of thing, characters disguising themselves as others cultures or species, and it can be done well.

"Blackface" is highly offensive in US culture as it comes from a history of white entertainers dressing themselves as caricatures of African peoples, with the explicit intent of mocking and degrading them for laughs. These entertainers weren't "disguising" themselves as Africans, they looked nothing like actual African peoples. It was so awful, that lots of folks in the US are triggered by any darkening of the skin using make-up, regardless of the intent or style of doing so.

So . . . if your player is trying to lean in to racist stereotypes, purposefully or incidentally, then I would lock that down. But as long as they strive to be respectful . . . as a player . . . it should be fine. It certainly can be tricky to navigate, and not everyone draws the line in the same place. Having an open discussion with your players, all of them, about the issue is a good idea to make sure y'all are on the same page and no one is going to get upset.

 

[MGibster]

I just worried they might see this as blackfacing and not the -not so innocent art of improving one's stealth-.

I'm not going to post images of it here, but blackface is designed to create a caricature of a black person. A caricature which typically included exaggerated facial features, coloring, and was accompanyed by mimicking stereotypical speech and behavior. Below you'll find an image of a soldier applying black makeup to his face.

Even if he finishes with a solid black face, this is not blackface. It's purpose is not to create a caricature of black people but instead to better help him blend into the environment so he can kill the enemy before they can kill him. i.e. It is not problematic. (Insofar as playing a game where we're assassinating people isn't problematic in and of itself.)

Apologies, for bringing this up on the forum if this topic is not really allowed, but I was wondering if this bothers others as well and if there is a safe way around this?

I don't anticipate it being a probem. Even here in the United States, most African Americans know the difference between black makeup and blackface as they are quite easy to discern from one another. On occasion there can be some confusion, I recall a customer had a problem with all the old photos of people in blackface a restaurant had on their walls, but in actuality those photos were local coal miners from the 19th and early 20th centuries. If it makes players uncomfortable just talk to them about it and maybe change the colors or wear a mask if that would be preferrable.