D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

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Dannyalcatraz

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This is a loaded subject if there ever was one, and it'll be interesting to see if this thread rises above....or is going to eventually get locked.

My thoughts:

1. WotC is trying. I will say that the current design team at WotC has shown itself to be in touch with the times and thoughtful in how they portray diverse groups. The article tends to acknowledge that while at the same time raising complaints. WotC has intentionally evolved the setting in a progressive way, to more mirror a post-imperialism setting. This move alone speaks to their intentions. And at the end of the day IMHO intentions matter.

2. Settings are generally "broad brush". The author takes issue with the historical inspirations being drawn from a hodgepodge of subcultures. I'm not sure what the alternative would be. A broad brush that picks the most interesting elements of various cultures over many centuries seems like an obvious approach from an adventure writing standpoint. The most classic D&D settings are a highlight reel mixing European middle ages and renaissance history with European folklore...Greek myths, French traditions, English knighthood all mashed up. Perhaps it is fair to say "it's a mashup and remix of histories and folklores...but this time Africa" and move on.

3. Does it boil down to design team representation? The article's author was nonplussed with a lack of POC on the design team. If the article's author discovered that POC were on the design team, would that have changed their opinion? I suspect it might, but have no way of knowing. As such, this may be the real takeaway for WotC. Have a person with the appropriate background [in this case, history/culture of Africa] on the design team, or a consultant with an expertise in that area giving feedback.
Black American gamer here* who never liked the abbreviation PoC**, and this is kind of where I am. I appreciate the effort to be inclusive, and progress has been made. There's a LOT less whitewashing & stereotyping in the hobby than there was in the 70's, but the journey isn't over.



* please don't abbreviate that as BAG, that brings up the Brown Bag test.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Paper_Bag_Test

** IT'S MADE OF PEOPLE!!!
115_pocky_chocolate_large.jpg
 

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neobolts

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never liked the abbreviation PoC

I specifically used the term "POC" to mirror the Kotaku/POCGamer articles. I don't think I've ever used it before in writing. I am seeing it more and more these days, sorry to hear it's not to your liking :/

Also, Pocky is delicious and any association with Pocky should only be viewed positively. Over my gaming table I have a massive poster of early 2000s girl group Morning Musume promoting Pocky. I have nothing but love for the snack. :cool:
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Rest assured, the whole PoC/Pocky thing was just to set up the soylent green joke! Nothing against the term or the snack...which I've never had.
 

epithet

Explorer
In the Forgotten Realms, where scandinavian heritage is reduced to "barbarian" warriors in horned helmets, Celtic heritage is repackaged as dwarves and elves, Slavic heritage is ground up into Ravenloft tropes (with Romani lovingly reimagined as vistani,) are we really pretending to be shocked at the trite amalgamation of some African cultural elements in Chult?

Come on, man.

I get that there is a history of racism that leaves a raw sensitivity here, but seriously - it is not remotely reasonable to expect the Forgotten Realms to single out African cultural legacies for respectful, thematically accurate representation. The Forgotten Realms is, in every respect, a silly place. If you want a serious setting that is sensitive to your cultural stuff, you don't want that one. That's not necessarily a bad thing, either... it is a willfully silly place, created for escapist fantasy, often happily embraced by folks who thought Greyhawk was too gritty (with its depiction of a world shaped culturally almost entirely by groups of humans, elves, orcs, etc. trying their best to kill everyone who wasn't completely like them.)

If you look for something to get offended by, you will certainly find it. That said, Tomb of Annihilation is a pretty good adventure, and Chult is a pretty well done region in that book. Could it have been done better with another 6 months and a handful of "consultants?" Maybe... but probably not, because the sensitive treatment of cultural issues is not a thing your merry band of murder-hobos is likely to appreciate.

But, maybe I'm just cynical.
 

And therein lies the rub. The fact that the D&D is small... does that mean they can be excused for not having PoC representation in their writing, or is that no excuse? It's really no different than asking if a Caucasian author should be allowed to write a book with black protagonist. Some people would say that the author doesn't have the knowledge of the black experience to be truthful in their work so that they shouldn't do so... but others would ask that if we want representation of all culture in media, doesn't an author have to do so anyway?
And the fantasy genre adds further wrinkles. It allows authors and readers to ask, "What do we really mean by 'black'?" If Perkins had written what he wrote about Chult but presented it as a depiction of, say, historical Zanzibari culture*, he would be getting much stronger criticism -- and if he presented it as a depiction of African-American culture, he'd just be laughed out of town. The fiction that this is an alternate world provides some creative license. Chultans are, in some sense, not the same black people as those in the real world who have experienced "the black experience". They've got their own Chultan experience.

However, we'd have to be pretty thick to think that's the end of the story, because, of course, Chult is obviously coded to invoke real-life Africa, from its material culture and language to its history of imperialist exploitation (which I must admit I'd forgotten about until reading the article, not being a close follower of the Forgotten Realms). That draws it right back into the conversation about black experiences. But to what extent? There is still some wiggle room; as I said, even in criticizing Perkins we're doing it very differently than we would if he'd written about "Zanzibar". Where do we draw the line between acceptable fantasy invention and insensitivity?

And what about fantasy cultures whose natives have dark skin but which don't so clearly invoke real-life Africa? Say, black herders of giant pillbugs and farmers of nutritious lichen living on a range of rainy plateaus. Do the writers of these cultures have some responsibility to reflect black experiences? Or perhaps some responsibility to avoid topics which might be taken as casting that reflection? What does it mean if we write a pillbug-herder character as experiencing discrimination? What does it mean if we write a pillbug-herder character as being privileged?

I don't have answers to any of these questions. The topic of race in fiction is a minefield with no map and, indeed, subjective mines.

*Incidentally, that's the one line that kind of made me cringe in the article, about reducing Africans from kings and queens to tradesmen, "a path they learned not from their own but from their neighbors." Um... what?

And we have to just hope that people understand that and acknowledge the attempt at inclusiveness, even if they can find criticism of the parts of the result.

And we also have to REALLY hope that the creative person doesn't become defensive at the criticism. Because oftentimes what then results is the over-reaction and the person gets so defensive that they lash out and become exactly what they were trying not to be. The #NotAllMen type of reaction (for example) where someone gets offended when a woman makes a criticism of men in general, and he takes such offense he ends up reacting misogynistically off of it. With reactions like "F- that B-!" or whatever. Thereby in many ways proving the point.
Fortunately, this seems to be what's happening here. The criticism is leveled reasonably and leaves open the possibility of improvement rather than writing off the criticized party as a monster. And the reactions of the mostly-white mostly-creative-people here have been, mostly, open and thoughtful. And while I haven't seen any reaction from Chris Perkins himself, for all his faults he's never given me the impression of being a "F- that B-!" sort of person.

And on the subject of the people here being mostly white, myself included: yes, having more minority opinions in the conversation would improve it. However, these criticisms are being leveled at, well, us. It's not inappropriate for us to talk about it. We damn well ought to.
 

neobolts

Explorer
it is not remotely reasonable to expect the Forgotten Realms to single out African cultural legacies for respectful, thematically accurate representation.

But maybe it is reasonable?

It's nice to think that we're Earthlings drawing upon our various Earth cultures for ideas. But that isn't the reality of things. We're talking about book from an all-white dev team going out to a majority white audience published in a country with an ongoing problem with racial injustice. Extra effort when focusing on non-white fantasy representation might be reasonable.

And it's not just limited to African culture, but any non-Eurocentric content pushed by an all-white dev team. Oriental Adventures is also a troublesome D&D IP, right down to the antiquated brand name. But at the same time, Wuxia and Feudal Japanese fantasy settings are incredibly vibrant and interesting. If WotC wants to approach those settings, there's an amazing wealth of material as long as they do their homework and talk to the right people.
 
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DEFCON 1

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If you look for something to get offended by, you will certainly find it. That said, Tomb of Annihilation is a pretty good adventure, and Chult is a pretty well done region in that book. Could it have been done better with another 6 months and a handful of "consultants?" Maybe... but probably not, because the sensitive treatment of cultural issues is not a thing your merry band of murder-hobos is likely to appreciate.

But, maybe I'm just cynical.

That's the thing about being cynical... usually it's the people for whom they have no horse in the race that gives them the privilege of being able TO BE cynical. If you're a white person who has never dealt with these issues, it's incredible easy to just throw up your hands and say "I don't understand what the big deal is!" Or "It's a silly land within a silly game! Don't take it so seriously!"

But this is true across the landscape-- if you have literally no experience with something, it's impossible to truly know what can and can't be ignored... what can and can't be laughed off... what can and can't be done if you "just put your mind to it". I've never done any drugs or had a drug addiction, so it would be utterly ridiculous for me to think and say to someone who does "Well, if you wanted to stop, then you would!" We all know it doesn't work that way. And by the same token a guy telling a woman who's being harassed by someone else "Just ignore it, it'll go away."

Thus to devolve any discussion on these kinds of themes down to "it's not a big deal" is not the kind of empathetic response that can actually lead us forward in something like this. Because more often than not, the person who's saying "It's not a big deal" is in fact the type of person for whom it ISN'T a big deal. Which doesn't really help things much in the long run. I usually think that if any point our reaction is "What's the big deal?" it means that for someone who isn't us, IT IS... and it's better off for us to just listen to them and acknowledge their feelings, rather than try and downplay the problem, thinking that'll solve it. Cause more often than not, it doesn't work.
 

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