Touch attack on an opponent's weapon.

[sullivan]

For a normal attack (Sunder) you and the opponent make opposed attack rolls. But if you just want to make a touch attack, to deliver a spell charge to the weapon, what is mechanism? I know this isn't that common. But i didn't even find the rules for a ranged touch attack on a weapon, or ranged touch attacks or touch attacks on carried objects, which is very appropriate for Disentigrate or Wand of Negation.

For objects do you still use the same AC for touch as normal attacks? 10 + size + Dex bonus of creature carrying or wearing the item. That seems to run a bit counter to touch AC typically (but not always) being lower. The problem seems to be that objects and weapons are not assigned natural armor of any sort. That is accounted for in the object Hardness, which of course is irrelavent for touch attacks.

Same issue for attacking a weapon, no natural armour because Hardness is there to take care of that.

Suggestions?

P.S. What about flat footed opponents, would you consider their weapon a carried object? I don't see any RAW explicitly on this, but a lack of threatening and AoO suggests that you aren't yet using your weapon as a weapon yet. So it is more an object held than a weapon.

 

[Demoquin]

i would probally treat it as a disarm. Considering that will come close to any action that resembles what you are looking for.

If it is a ranged touch .. i would just say if you beat his ac. Or for melee .... beat is ac but he gets an AoO for casting and one for the attempt. (beware Combat Reflexes )

I think that a flatfooted enemy's weapon is still a weapon ... as he is going to use it as soon as he can to cleave you

 

[sullivan]

i would probally treat it as a disarm. Considering that will come close to any action that resembles what you are looking for.

Disarm? Ouch. That's harder to accomplish than a normal Sunder since it basically has the same opposed roll but with an automatic failure if the opponent does damage with the AoO. I'm not trying to grab onto or pull/push the weapon out of his hands? Why should it be harder, I just need to touch instead of 'touch' hard?

If it is a ranged touch .. i would just say if you beat his ac. Or for melee .... beat is ac but he gets an AoO for casting and one for the attempt. (beware Combat Reflexes )

Curious why you picked the opponent's AC, if that is what you mean? That's not related at all to normal Sunder weapon or Sunder objects. That AC can include things that don't appear to me to in any substantive way protect the weapon from being hit. Having yourself coated in plate protects the weapon in your hand? What was your reasoning on that?

I think that a flatfooted enemy's weapon is still a weapon ... as he is going to use it as soon as he can to cleave you

Ya, and someday the catepillar will be a beautiful butterfly, but not yet. Unless they have Uncanny Dodge he has no Dex to AC, nor does he threaten, nor can he make an AoO. My reasoning is that the later two suggests that while it might be an object that has the form of a weapon, he is not yet able to use it as a weapon regarding combat.

 

[hobgoblin]

a sunder attack looks like it would be the correct way to do it. the reduction you normaly get on ac on a touch attack is from the fact that worn armor dont help against touching, only dexterity and similar helps.