D&D 4E Towards a Story Now 4e

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I made up things like a Sorcerers Sphere which was like circles of protection whirring about in the air around the mage the wizard actively adjusts it in response to attacks (for that extra shield like effect). And A Runic Sheath which are runes floating over you.

IE you might just make wizard flavored armor created with rituals on a daily basis. So even if a Wizard type wants "armor" it can fit your world flavor.
 

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I made up things like a Sorcerers Sphere which was like circles of protection whirring about in the air around the mage the wizard actively adjusts it in response to attacks (for that extra shield like effect). And A Runic Sheath which are runes floating over you.

IE you might just make wizard flavored armor created with rituals on a daily basis. So even if a Wizard type wants "armor" it can fit your world flavor.

That sounds like a fun ritual!
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I did away with AC! Again, this is just simpler, there's no longer this weird extra defense which sort of logically should overlap with the others anyway (why do some attacks only care about your armor and not how tough you are or if you can dodge well?). Every attack goes against one of the 3 4e-style defenses, and THEN your armor takes a bite out of the damage! This can create problems, I know, but it also solved a whole bunch of things in 4e real quick.

I'd also note that DR applies to all sorts of damage. Yes, this means the guy in plate armor resists fear and etc. better. That might offend you, well too bad! ;) I look at it this way, cladding yourself in plate armor is a way of saying you are a tough walking tank of a guy, and if that means you don't chicken out easily, well, is that so crazy?

RuneQuest did this trick as well but they made psychic/spirit combat come in on another avenue entirely.

All the other physical damage seemed to work fine with damage absorbtion.

They also had static hit points and very swingy crits that could by pass the damage absorbtion.
 
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Hmm, well, I didn't get a chance to rewrite chargen yesterday... I have a lot to think about Skills, so lets think about what else we can look at. How about Inspiration, and Vitality Points? That sounds like fun! So, I'm abandoning any pretense of doing anything in any sort of order, we'll just go directly to the fun!

[h=1]Traits and Inspiration
[/h] Each character has many traits. These are all the elements which go to make up the character, background, personality traits, class, race, and the various boons and possibly other things which a character may accumulate. Players may leverage these traits by spending his character’s inspiration to add or alter elements of the narrative. This gives players an incentive and allowance to make the story engage the dramatic needs of their characters. Thus when selecting traits for a character the primary thing to keep in mind is how these traits will help to produce a fun game.
[h=2]Personality Traits[/h] Each character normally has 3 personality traits, a strength, a weakness, and a goal. The character's strength is something he does well, some aspect of his personality which helps him, etc. The weakness is likewise an aspect of the character which causes him problems. A goal is something that the character wants to achieve.
Each trait should be a single simple statement, such as “I always tell the truth” or “I accept no quarter from orcs”, or “I desire to be recognized by the king for my prowess in battle”, etc.
Note that in play a player may use any trait, positive or negative, either to justify spending inspiration or to use to create a setback to gain inspiration with. Having a strength and a weakness are just convenient ways to make it easier to find something to play off of in a given situation. Some traits may not be clearly one or the other in every case, and if a player wants to describe only positive traits for a character, or only negative traits, this is acceptable. Just remember it may sometimes be hard to find a way to generate a setback from a collection of positive statements!
[h=2]Inspiration[/h] Inspiration is binary, a character either has inspiration, or not, it can't be 'stored up', there's no such thing as having '2 points of inspiration'. Every character starts play in each session with inspiration. Characters can acquire inspiration by accepting a setback. They can spend inspiration to achieve an advantage.
[h=3]Gaining Inspiration[/h] There are two ways to gain inspiration. First of all each character starts each session with inspiration. Secondly a player may accept a setback for his character in order to gain inspiration if she doesn't have it. The setback should relate to one of the character's traits.
[h=3]Spending Inspiration[/h] Whenever a player who's character has inspiration wishes, he can expend his character's inspiration. The player simply states which of the character's traits are being invoked and the narrative explanation for how it applies to the situation. The player now gains a benefit for spending inspiration as explained in the next section.
[h=3]Setbacks and Advantages[/h] Setbacks are accepted in order to gain inspiration. A setback should be a narrative story element that presents an obstacle for the character. This could be the appearance of an NPC, becoming lost, running out of supplies, etc. It could literally be almost anything, but it needs to relate to one of the character's traits. For instance Roger the Rogue is attempting to unlock a door leading into the bursar's office of a guild. The player wants to have a point of inspiration and decides that Roger has lost his lockpicks, which ties into his weakness “forgetful”. Roger reaches into his belt pouch and comes up empty. The GM decides the setback should have some substance (IE not just “I kick in the door instead”) so Roger hears the night watchmen standing around outside the window talking. He's going to have to come up with something clever, or else go empty-handed; however, Roger now has a point of Inspiration, maybe he can win the day anyhow!
Likewise, when spending inspiration, advantages are narrative story elements. While advantage could be as trivial as actually gaining advantage on a check, it should be something more interesting. Primarily it needs to tie into the character's traits. Lets say Fred the Knight has 'resourceful' as a strength. He's trying to evade some orcs and he comes to the top of a cliff. His pursuers are not far behind, and he really needs a break! His player spends his inspiration, and Fred remembers the length of stout line he picked up earlier and wrapped around his waist. Soon he's out of reach of the orcs, who have no rope of their own.
One easy rule of thumb would be that gaining inspiration should be similar to failure on a check in an abstract challenge, and spending inspiration should be as good as succeeding in a check in an abstract challenge. However note that Inspiration allows the player to reach into the world and change the situation, not just allow the character to succeed (or fail) where dice might produce that result anyway. The player is allowed to add any kind of element, or invoke any sort of event or circumstance, as long as she is able to explain how it fits into the story. It is permissible, for example, to invent a secret door, or an NPC ally. It isn’t permissible to simply invent into existence some kind of ridiculous deus ex machina which is entirely non sequitur or fails to fall within expected genre conventions.
[h=2]Character Evolution[/h] Character's traits don't need to remain static. A character might achieve her goal, in which case she will probably set new goals. Likewise characters may grow or change in personality, taking on new and different strengths and weaknesses. The GM may also declare a trait to be void if the character simply doesn't embody this trait at all, or conditions change such that it becomes meaningless. Likewise the GM might impose a trait if it fits the character, but this should usually be done in consultation with the player.
[h=2]Alternate Traits[/h] Strengths, weaknesses, and goals are simple basic types of traits. They are meant to be easy to define and clear in their application. However they aren't the only possible kinds of traits. Players and GMs should feel free to come up with others. 3 is a nice simple number of traits to keep track of and doesn't clutter the character sheet too much, but characters may have more or fewer traits as desired.
[h=2]Boons and Afflictions[/h] An affliction could manifest itself as a trait. This could be a curse for instance which causes a character to behave in a new/different way. Such a trait might overwrite an existing trait the character has, changing his personality, or it might simply be an additional trait at the GM's discretion. Likewise a trait could be a boon. For example a character could be granted 'fearlessness' as a strength by some sort of powerful magical agency as a boon in reward for service.

Comments? Dr [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]? ;)
 

RuneQuest did this trick as well but they made psychic/spirit combat come in on another avenue entirely.

All the other physical damage seemed to work fine with damage absorbtion.

They also had static hit points and very swingy crits that could by pass the damage absorbtion.

RQ's combat system was pretty much ridiculous, lol. I remember some guy in a Dragon article or something like that calculating that in a battle between 100 men on each side that 23 of them would die by accidentally killing themselves with their own weapon (due to fumbles) 12 would be decapitated, etc. etc. etc. It was pretty silly.

Anyway. There is of course the General Challenge system (skill challenges basically) which could supply situations where DR wouldn't help you against some sort of psychic force/attack. There's really no specific rules for damage there, any more than there are in 4e really.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
RQ's combat system was pretty much ridiculous, lol. I remember some guy in a Dragon article or something like that calculating that in a battle between 100 men on each side that 23 of them would die by accidentally killing themselves with their own weapon (due to fumbles) 12 would be decapitated, etc. etc. etc. It was pretty silly.

There were lots of variations actually and version differences as well. The damn thing was bloody nasty head injury of 12, I would says is accurate but the self injury numbers are way off of any version I played. My favorite was Stormbringer.

I once made a system once with hitpointless combat designed to statistically emulate DnDs vicioiusness and it was also horrific. That old DnD is the era RQ was designed in.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Anyway. There is of course the General Challenge system (skill challenges basically) which could supply situations where DR wouldn't help you against some sort of psychic force/attack. There's really no specific rules for damage there, any more than there are in 4e really.

That might work the spirit combat was its own combat system arguably with an ablative skill and some spells tailored to modify it and the effects of the attacks
 

Jhaelen

First Post
RQ's combat system was pretty much ridiculous, lol. I remember some guy in a Dragon article or something like that calculating that in a battle between 100 men on each side that 23 of them would die by accidentally killing themselves with their own weapon (due to fumbles) 12 would be decapitated, etc. etc. etc. It was pretty silly.
It's been a while since I played Runequest, but I cannot remember a single incident where a character hit himself due to a fumble. Losing limbs (or heads) was a quite common occurrence, though.
I really liked how lethal ranged weapons were in Runequest (especially the once that could impale).
 

pemerton

Legend
Whenever the Game Master decides that a creature must overcome some sort of obstacle, defeat an opponent, or perform some action which is beyond the ordinary, a check will be called for. Note that if a character is simply doing something ordinary, under conditions where an ordinary person could predictably get good results, then no check is required. Checks resolve, or help to resolve conflict, they aren't intended as a mere randomization mechanism. When a check is made, something is at stake
Is it OK to get hyper-analytical?

(If not, disregard what follows!)

I've been reading, and doing some play of, Vincent Baker games: In a Wicked Age a couple of weeks ago; Murderous Ghosts with my kids (the required PG aspect given the other player really dials the game down, but it's interesting to see the mechanics - a card-driven, choose-your-own adventure variant of PbtA - at work); and reading DitV, Poison'd and Kill Puppies for Satan. My PDF copy of the latter is annotated, and its interesting to see Baker criticising his own earlier work. From p 6:

now let’s see, oh yeah mechanics. here they are: roll a d6 and add your stat. if they add up to at least a 7 you succeed. if you’re doing something easy, gm’s call, they only have to add up to at least a 6 to succeed. if you and somebody else are both trying to do something, and only one of you can do it, whoever rolls higher wins.​

And here's the annotation on p 7:

i’m sure you noticed, those aren’t really resolution rules. they’re just like some sh*t for people to do while the gm resolves everything by fiat. they suck.​

Baker has said a similar thing about task resolution rules on his blog: that task resolution is just a distraction from the reality of GM fiat. What about the conflict part of the rules? It's still based on an in-fiction rather than at-the-table notion of conflict between two characters.

Contrast In a Wicked Age. From p 12:

When do you roll dice?
Roll dice when one character undertakes to do some concrete thing, and another character can and would try to interfere. Every player with a character involved, including you as GM, rolls dice for their own character. If you have more than one NPC involved, roll separate dice for each.

Don’t roll dice when two characters are having a conversation, no matter how heated it becomes; wait until one or the other acts.

Don’t roll dice when a character undertakes to do some concrete thing and no other character can or would try to interfere.​

Now there's a rule: actions succeed unless they're opposed; and there is a rule for when they are opposed ("another character can and would try to interfere"). The GM still has control over framing (eg can determine that no other character can interfere) but it is the "best interests" of a character, decided as part of setting up the session, that will determine whether or not that character would try to interfere.

The HoML guidance on when to roll the dice has some possible tensions in this respect: the GM calls for checks, but what if the playerp thinks something is at stake? What guides these decisions? (In standard 4e it can be tricky because there are overt no Belief/"best interests" rules.) And what if there is something at stake, but the task is ordinary? Check or no check? Burning Wheel calls for a check in these circumstances, but its mechanics allow for an ever-decreasing likelihood of failure (eg 5 dice against Ob 1 - ie roll 5d6 and hope that at least one comes up 4 or better - is a 97% chance of success before spending fate points). In a Wicked Age calls for a check in these circumstances, with the likelihoods determined purely by the contest of stats between characters (although the framing may be relevant to the outcome - if something is easy, then it may cost a player less to initiate conflict, or to allow another to get what they want without contesting).

I'll post this and then try and read some more. (Maybe some of your later posts address some of what I've talked about.)
 


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