TPK Your Entire Party

[lukelightning]

Being friends outside of character influences actions inside character?

If you're ruining my gaming experience don't expect me to game with you. It's like playing cards and one player keeps messing up the game. Occasional appropriate PvP is ok (the situation KarinsDad mentions seems to fit the bill), but some people just seem to get a kick out of ruining the game. And that's what the original post reads as.

Default D&D is a group experience. If you make a character that just can't fit with the other characters at all then go play by yourself. This goes for Psychopathic PC Murderers, Overbearing Paladins, Must-Destroy-All-Magic-Forsakers, and Sorry-Guys-My-Frenzied-Berzerker-Can't-Stop-Chopping-You-All-With-Her-Greataxe.

 

[werk]

If you're ruining my gaming experience don't expect me to game with you. It's like playing cards and one player keeps messing up the game. Occasional appropriate PvP is ok (the situation KarinsDad mentions seems to fit the bill), but some people just seem to get a kick out of ruining the game. And that's what the original post reads as.

Default D&D is a group experience. If you make a character that just can't fit with the other characters at all then go play by yourself. This goes for Psychopathic PC Murderers, Overbearing Paladins, Must-Destroy-All-Magic-Forsakers, and Sorry-Guys-My-Frenzied-Berzerker-Can't-Stop-Chopping-You-All-With-Her-Greataxe.

A.K.A. Griefers

..I hates them, hates them very much so.

 

[lukelightning]

Of course, to be fair, in some games (e.g. Paranoia), PvP is expected, nay, demanded. However you have to be sneaky about it, and luckily the same is set up so if you're killed, you get a replacement clone. You're back in the game in 5 minutes or less. So you can keep playing and having fun.

If some fellow player TPK'd us. I'd say "fine, let's all make the exact same characters and assume the made the exact same actions to get back to the point they died... except they kill Paul the PvP Psysho's character."

 

[Seeten]

Being friends outside of character influences actions inside character?

So much for roleplaying in your group. It's better to set up in group dynamics that motivate Evil PCs to not kill each other than to just not do it "because it ruins the game".

Our group roleplays well, and sets our characters up to work together, not at crosspurposes. Evil, and Good, BOTH, can work together. LE alignments are very capable of maintaining friendships, even with good people, let alone other evil people.

Evil does not mean insane rapist murdering maniac from the OP.

Until you actually play in our group, you really are talking out of your butt here.

In the example I gave earlier, the Evil PC was killing innocent villagers in order to make Blood Wine for his Imp familiar. If my Good PC would have caught him at it, his PC would have been a smear on the trail. Since my Good PC did not catch him at it (or any of the other hideous acts his PC did), my PC did nothing to his PC.

I agree, and to a certain degree, I shouldnt talk about your group at all, I know I hate it when people talk about mine, but, I do have thousands of posts worth of information on their dynamics. You use them as examples a lot, and your frames of reference of what feats are good, and bad, per your group, are telling, to an extent.

I dont think your methods of play are bad, or wrong, but they are different from ours. We don't play PC's who, if they caught one another "doing wrong" would kill each other. We don't set the group up from the start with that sort of dynamic.

But, I wouldn't let that slide due to a real world friendship if I had caught him in character.

You appear to have fragile real world friendships if you would.

Even an Evil PC might not want the heat of local authorities in such a case and might take matters into his own hands to make life easier for himself. That's called roleplaying. Sorry you and your friends never heard of the concept.

My friends and I have been gaming for 20 years. I was the best man at their weddings. They were the best men/etc at mine. We go to movies, parties, and whatnot outside of gaming. If we had ingame conflict, it certainly would not affect our friendship. But, that isnt fun for us.

I often play a LE character, and sometimes I work on corrupting the party to my goals, but I do nothing dastardly, or "EVIL" that would cause them discomfort, at least until I have them on my side, and working with me. If they are adamant against it, I gradually move towards LN. Luckily, if you play a necromancer, most of your spells are EVIL, so its easy to help the group while maintaining your evil alignment. Evil doesnt need to be destructive to party goals, and thats a fact I standby.

No offense meant in the talk about your group, either, its just a different dynamic than my own.

 

[KarinsDad]

Default D&D is a group experience. If you make a character that just can't fit with the other characters at all then go play by yourself. This goes for Psychopathic PC Murderers, Overbearing Paladins, Must-Destroy-All-Magic-Forsakers, and Sorry-Guys-My-Frenzied-Berzerker-Can't-Stop-Chopping-You-All-With-Her-Greataxe.

Which is why the DM should not allow it in the first place.

Evil PCs do not have to fit in this mold, but by default they basically do if the player is truly playing them as Evil. Sooner or later, the gains should outweigh the risks. Otherwise, the PC is probably not truly Evil.

Just like sooner or later, a Good PC should sacrifice for the group (not necessarily his life, but his goods or something else). Otherwise, he is probably not truly Good.

 

[Blightersbane]

call in a favor from a frenzied bezerker when he's done with the party go to shake his hand that'le give ya your TPK

silence 15' radius, shrink item on a iron wall, heat metal on said said mini wall, hold mini hot plate above slumbering party, drop above camp site unshrink item. You may here some popping noise, when the popping stops the party is well done.

cast mind fog over slumbering party, dominate person the parties meathead have him do it for you.

Bb

 

[Seeten]

"Truly Evil" does not mean "Truly without any values or morals".

The mob is "Truly Evil" imo, and yet, I havent heard many stories of a mobster murdering his wife and all his children at random, and if he DID, he'd be hunted down by the rest of the family and put down like a dog.

The fact that people play evil like ridiculous 1 dimensional buffoons does not make it so. Articulate, skillful and intelligent evil can be evil with heart, with friends he or she ACTUALLY cares about, but he may see the ends differently than his friends. His solution to problems may be to eliminate, not rehabilitate, to kill the evil bbeg, he may feel it necessary to torture his associates, rather than ask nicely. Does this mean he goes home and beats his wife? No. Why would it? He loves his wife, and she isnt trying to murder all life in x.

Evil doesnt mean you feel the need to murder and torture EVERYONE. Just murdering and torturing the bad guys is enough to make you Evil, according to the threads I read in this very forum.

 

[Blightersbane]

"Truly Evil" does not mean "Truly without any values or morals".

The mob is "Truly Evil" imo, and yet, I havent heard many stories of a mobster murdering his wife and all his children at random, and if he DID, he'd be hunted down by the rest of the family and put down like a dog.

The fact that people play evil like ridiculous 1 dimensional buffoons does not make it so. Articulate, skillful and intelligent evil can be evil with heart, with friends he or she ACTUALLY cares about, but he may see the ends differently than his friends. His solution to problems may be to eliminate, not rehabilitate, to kill the evil bbeg, he may feel it necessary to torture his associates, rather than ask nicely. Does this mean he goes home and beats his wife? No. Why would it? He loves his wife, and she isnt trying to murder all life in x.

Evil doesnt mean you feel the need to murder and torture EVERYONE. Just murdering and torturing the bad guys is enough to make you Evil, according to the threads I read in this very forum.

Who he deems as deserving

 

[KarinsDad]

"Truly Evil" does not mean "Truly without any values or morals".

The mob is "Truly Evil" imo, and yet, I havent heard many stories of a mobster murdering his wife and all his children at random, and if he DID, he'd be hunted down by the rest of the family and put down like a dog.

Most PCs are not married to other PCs. Most PCs do not have PC children in the party. You are equating two disparate situations. Family versus Friends / Associates. Apples and Oranges. What one evil mobster might not do to his wife, he might do to his best friend when provoked. And guess what? Some mobsters do beat their wives and kids. Many of them are violent people.


Mobsters wipe out other mobsters in their own mobs on occasion. It is how they sometimes advance. It is how they maintain order. Granted, most mobsters tend to not do so too often because internal mob wars cut into profits. But, even a false rumor could get two mobster friends at each other's throats. That's the way it is with evil people.

Their values and morals are evilly distorted.


And, murder typically requires either a perceived gain (be that monetary, revenge, or whatever), or just a spur of the moment rage. If Evil PC One murders PCs Two through Four, typically he quadruples his wealth. For many evil people, greed is easy to justify.

But, there is little difference between a group of mobsters who have worked for several years together and Evil PCs in a party who have worked for several years together. If the gain is sufficient or even from a misunderstanding, they can easily wipe out each other.

Sure, they have friends. Sure they have family.

But, we are talking evil business associates here (both the mob and evil PCs in a game). They may be friends, but then again, they may not. And even if they are friends, business is business. Do you really think that real life mobsters 100% trust their best friends if they too are in the mob?

The main difference between the Mob and a party of Evil PCs is that the Mob tends to enforce semi-reasonable behavior on their violent members through fear of retribution. Evil PCs might not have as much of that unless the game is set up for them to each belong to organizations which could seek revenge.


Btw, a closer analogy to a party of Evil PCs would not be the Mob, but rather would be Outlaw Gangs in the West in the mid to late 1800s. Many of them were flat out evil and killed their associates when convenient. Some of them killed their associates for the reward money.


Not all Evil people are the same, but by definition, they are Evil. Not Neutral. Not Good. Sure, a specific Evil person might have a code against killing other humans or killing close associates or some such. But, that would be the exception, not the rule for Evil.

Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit.

...

"Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

This does not state that they do this except against others in their party.


In fact, look at Good PCs. They often murder perceived enemies at the drop of a hat. The entire game system is designed for theft and murder. What is so special about PCs? Do they have "PC" stamped on their foreheads??? Other PCs do not touch?

Presumably in some games.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

RPG Terminology

This is my point as well, TPK = total party kill. Saying TPK an entire party is redundant, and if it doesn't include your death, is redundantly incorrect.

True, so I guess he wants a 3PK?

-Samir