Trip Attacks and holding a non-tripping weapon... seeking justification.

[Hypersmurf]

According to Hypersmurf, he can't attack with his unarmed strike until his next turn, as he isn't wielding it. (If he wanted to be considered wielding it, he would have had to take the TWF penalties on his glaive attack.)

Not necessarily... if he ceases to wield (and thus threaten) with his glaive at the time he chooses to threaten with his unarmed strike, he's not wielding a second weapon in his off-hand.

It he wants to threaten at both 5' and 10' (with US and glaive respectively), then I'd impose TWF penalties.

-Hyp.

 

[nhl_1997]

In order to make an unarmed attack, a character needs to fullfill one of two criteria:
1) Monk class levels
2) Have a free hand

Only monks are able to make unarmed attacks with legs (and probably some monsters as well, but I'll stick with PHB classes.)

The rules of the game articles on wizards (unofficially) remarks that you can remove a hand from your two-handed weapon as a free action. However, after doing that, you no longer threaten any squares with that two-handed weapon.

It's also a free action to "regrab" the two-handed weapon, but you can only take that free action on your turn.


If you really want to simultaneously threaten squares both 5' and 10' away, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Chain, spiked is the simplest solution (no Improved Unarmed Attack feat is necessary.)

If you want your unarmed attacks to continuously threaten squares, there are several options:
1) class levels in monk
2) Improved Unarmed Strike plus a free hand
3) Gauntlet, spiked (however that hand cannot have anything else.... including Gauntlets of ogre power or gloves of dexterity.)


Note: it's entirelly possible I'm just making some of this up. I do know for a fact that monks can make unarmed attacks with any body part. I also know for a fact that the rules of the game articles discuss letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand (and regrabbing it), but those articles are not official rules.

I do not know for a fact that an unarmed attack by characters other than a monk must be made with a hand, but I think it's true.

 

[Thanee]

I think it's utterly ridiculous to assume, that a fighter would need a free hand to make a trip attack.

Bye
Thanee

 

[nhl_1997]

Now that I have my PHB in front of me, I'll revise my opinion....

Description of Unarmed Attack:
"Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts..."

Note: The description includes kicks and says nothing about being a monk.


Trip
"Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target..."

For the original question, I now revise my original statements and conclude that yes, someone can make a trip attack even if both hands are occupied with non-tripping weapons. However, since the original assumption was that this character had no special feats, the trip attack could not be used as an attack of opportunity because the unarmed attack does not threaten any squares. Giving the fighter Improved Trip would not change the fact that the trip attack cannot be used as an attack of opportunity, but giving the fighter Improved Unarmed Strike would allow the character to make a trip attack as an AOO.

 

[bfallin]

If you dont use the equiped weapon in your hand for the trip attack then you are fighting with 2 weapons and all penalties apply for your whole round.
so if you had already attacked and didnt take the penality then you cant trip in that round unless you use your weapon.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you dont use the equiped weapon in your hand for the trip attack then you are fighting with 2 weapons and all penalties apply for your whole round.
so if you had already attacked and didnt take the penality then you cant trip in that round unless you use your weapon.

I don't think I buy that.

Specifically, Trip can be substituted in place of an attack. The wording is not "Trip can be subsituted in place of an attack with a weapon which can be used to trip or in place of an unarmed attack."

If it was, I'd buy your interpretation.

 

[Kemrain]

Now that I have my PHB in front of me, I'll revise my opinion....
Description of Unarmed Attack:
"Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts..."
Note: The description includes kicks and says nothing about being a monk.
Trip
"Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target..."
For the original question, I now revise my original statements and conclude that yes, someone can make a trip attack even if both hands are occupied with non-tripping weapons. However, since the original assumption was that this character had no special feats, the trip attack could not be used as an attack of opportunity because the unarmed attack does not threaten any squares. Giving the fighter Improved Trip would not change the fact that the trip attack cannot be used as an attack of opportunity, but giving the fighter Improved Unarmed Strike would allow the character to make a trip attack as an AOO.

I must agree with this whole heartedly. A perfect description! Congratulations.

- Kemrain the Dislegged.

 

[Nail]

So....you can't trip if you're weilding a non-tripping weapon, because there's nothing in the Trip description that implies you can trip with anything other than an unarmed attack or a tripping weapon?

 

[Coredump]

You *can* trip, because you can make an unarmed attack, even if you are weilding a weapon.

 

[Squire James]

A trip attack is an unarmed attack. Nothing in the rules suggest you must use hands for an unarmed attack, so I assume you can make one even if you don't have a hand free.

However, non-trip reach weapons can't trip on their AoO, because you're NOT using the weapon to execute the trip... you are using your unarmed attack (which normally doesn't have reach).