D&D 4E Tripping, Disarm, and other maneuvers in 4e

[Saeviomagy]

Personally, I find it hard that anyone can accept this as a legitimate "solution" to handling disarm or similar maneuvers. To start with the basics, I don't buy into a combat maneuver being defined as "usable only by a specific character class once per encounter or less or someone who has spent two feats to cherry pick this same ability."

Then use practically any condition imposing power and narrate it as a disarm. Done and balance preserved.

 

[Blue]

The rules need to support play, not dictate it

well trip not so much (well maybe) but disarm, lets look at it from a PC point of view

my 15th level fighter has a +4 longsword, and expertise in it and focus in it... so I get over my bas +3 prof + 2 expertise and _4 magic to hit, and +2 feat and +4 magic to damage... +9/+6 If you disarm me, and I draw my back up dagger that is non magical I lost 9 points of attack and 6 points and 2 die codes of damage...
that is the most effective attack in the game...bar none.

I agree, a character without their gear is crippled. Oh, non-martial characters not as much. If you're going against a non-AC defense you don't need the proficiency bonus to offset the higher AC, so you still have a possible chance to hit, just not the normal roughly 50/50. I think it's a common failing for non-spellcasters in any version of D&D that they are quite gear dependant.

That said, it doesn't excuse that there needs to be rules for disarming. If a PC can try it (by the player saying that's what their character is doing), the rules need to be able to support the attempt. Supporting it ad hoc via pg 42 is just fine. Saying "we pretend the concept of disarming doesn't exist" isn't.

So, we're at a table. The party has been tasked to recover a flail from an opponent the PCs can't overcome. A PCs get into a fight (*sigh*) and one says "I want to disarm". You have pg 42 of the DMG and everything else - how do you adjudicate it?

How do you in a balanced (mechanically) and appropriate (world verisimilitude) run this ad hoc action?

 

[MerricB]

In 4E, Improved Trip would look something like this:

Improved Trip
Benefit: You can use the Improved Trip power.

No, it wouldn't. Name one feat that gives access to a new power.

The only exceptions to that are things that give new variations on existing powers (e.g. the Divine feats).

Cheers!

 

[LostSoul]

I don't necessarily think there needs to be a rule for disarms - or trips, or whatevers. The DM can make a ruling. That's his job.

I personally think that allowing PCs to try a disarm makes the game more fun. It means that the fictional situation - what's going on in the game world - matters.

I think my favourite solution would be to narrate the NPC's actions, and if I felt like he opened himself up to a disarm attempt, then a PC would be able to exploit that. "He swings wildly and misses, over-reaching on his attack." "Oh yeah? I give him a shove and knock him to the ground." "Cool, since he's already off-balance, that's a Str vs. Fort attack, and he falls prone."

Or: "He makes an overhand swing and his axe smashes into your shield, numbing your shield arm. Take 8 damage." "While we're in close I make a quick cut down on his hands like this <mimics the action>, trying to disarm him. I want to use Sure Strike." "Makes sense, if you hit he's also disarmed."

No, it wouldn't. Name one feat that gives access to a new power.

The only exceptions to that are things that give new variations on existing powers (e.g. the Divine feats).

Cheers!

I was trying to write up how 3E handled disarm and translate those into 4E's mechanics.

 

[webrunner]

No, it wouldn't. Name one feat that gives access to a new power.

The only exceptions to that are things that give new variations on existing powers (e.g. the Divine feats).

Cheers!

The non-class Multiclass feats (eg, nets, spiked chains) give you powers

 

[Nebulous]

Ok, what about some more options?

How about disarming (possibly) only on a critical hit, with lessened damage?

What about only elites and solos can disarm by burning an AP? Of course they have to spend requisite actions to complete it as well. I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing as the PC can almost always quickly retrieve his/her weapon.

Having Disarm as a fighter power is probably the best way to do it, with added bonuses, but others should be able to attempt it with lesser success. I just don't think it would get used that often anyway, unless it was so damn good and debilitating, in which case it would be broken anyway.

 

[CubeKnight]

The non-class Multiclass feats (eg, nets, spiked chains) give you powers

IIRC, those allows you to replace your class powers with the weapon powers.

 

[MerricB]

IIRC, those allows you to replace your class powers with the weapon powers.

That's correct. They swap out an existing power and allow you to gain a new power.

Cheers!