True 20 - Is it really Simpler?

[Kenson]

Actually, Hot Pursuit is a perfect match for True20. All Corey needs is to change the obstacle frequency tables to a d20.....

The Mastermind's Manual for M&M actually has a version of the popular pursuit/chase rules that should work just fine with True20 as well.

 

[carpedavid]

I told him not to worry and if he wants to build his next character (a monk) using the class in the PHB that we can do so with the True20 system. If there's a feat in D20 that's not in True20, we'll look making one up.

Trying to create an exact analogue of the D&D monk in True20 is tricky. The monk is unbalanced compared to the other classes, and the sheer number of abilities they get is hard to fit in. We just did a trial conversion of one of my player's monk characters, and we got it *close.*

I'd recommend a mixture of expert and warrior levels, with the first level being warrior. That way you get the warrior's core ability, which is similar to the monk's "wholeness of body" ability, and for which there really isn't any other option in the core True20 rules.

 

[bento]

The monk class I spected out was the funkiest of the seven roles:

Level 1 & 2 Expert (attack focus - unarmed, canny dodge, exotic weapon training, improved strike & defensive roll
Level 3 Adept (body control)
Level 4 & 5 Expert (evasion & deflect arrows)
Level 6 Warrior (grappling finesse)
Level 7 & 8 Expert (acrobatic bluff & slow fall)
Level 9 Adept (psychic shield)
Level 10 & 11 Expert (defensive roll +2, stunning attack)
Level 12 Warrior (seize initiative)
Level 13 & 14 Expert (run & improved evasion)
Level 15 Adept (harm - quivering palm)
Level 16 & 17 Expert (defensive roll +3, snatch arrows)
Level 18 Warrior (attack specialization - weapon)
Level 19 & 20 Expert (redirect & defensive roll +4)

The only other role I created that had this back-and-forth build was Ninja, with 15 Expert levels and 5 adept, taken in the same 2-1-2-1 staggering manner.

But I tell my players these are only my takes on what this character would be like and if they envision something completely different to make it happen. As long as its true to what they are playing, they can be a "monk" throughout the game and develop some really unique feats and powers.

 

[Elodan]

I've been watching this thread with interest and it has piqued my interest in True 20.

A question; how difficult is it to convert existing D&D 3.x adventures to use True20.

Thanks.

 

[Brad Hindman]

I like it for this reason, and because I think once you're familiar with it- it IS simpler, but like all game mechanics it takes getting used to. I just think it stings a bit more here for some, because we're ALL accustomed to hit points already; up unitil recently it was pretty much one mechanic you could almost always count on changing very little from game system to game system.

While I agree that the damage track of True20 isn't difficult and works pretty well once the players and the DM get used to it, I would disagree that it is fundamentally simpler than HP. There isn't much simpler than, subtracting damage from your HP until you reach 0 at which point you drop unconscious.

My group has played several True20 campaigns in a variety of genres and we think it is a great system. The character generation system is simple and highly adaptable; the magic system is customizable, expandable and easy to use in play. The simplifications to the combat system make the battlemat unnecessary, encourage roleplaying during fights, promote dramatic and imaginative actions by the players, allow the handling of large combats, and speed up play.

Our only real complaints is in fact with the damage track. In my opinion, Hit Points were simply replaced by two other less predictable resources: damage ticks on the track and conviction. The reliance on conviction is actually a drawback in my opinion. We found that players horded their conviction because of essentially role they play in combat longevity. So, instead of using conviction to perform dramatic actions with flare and gusto, they were all saved for the crucial toughness save. To a lesser extent, another complaint is with the status effects built into the damage track. My players felt that many of these effects (e.g., stunning) just weren't very fun at the frequency they occurred. Sitting around watching your friends play, while you loose a turn may be realistic, but it isn't very entertaining.

So to paraphase, as a mechanic the damage track holds up well, it just wasn't our cup of tea and didn't promote the style of game we wanted to play (high flamboyant action). In a more gritty game it might perform more to our expectation. Since other portions of True20 do support crazy imaginative maneuvers by the players, we are presently using a True20 hybrid. We've kept the character generation rules, the combat system and the magic system, while simply dumping the damage track.

 

[carpedavid]

Nifty progression, Bento. I may present that to my player, to see if he likes it better than what we came up with.

Thanks!

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've done my own sci-fi game which looks very similar to True20, although I'd actually designed it after hearing about the M&M damage track.

In my playtesting, we found that the recording of 'hits' was bookkeeping we didn't want, so we modified things in this way - reduce all damage DCs by 5 (effectively becoming 10+damage instead of 15+damage), and the first result if you fail the save is Wounded.

Losing the ability to wear a target down by scoring lots of 'hits' may be less of an issue in the sci-fi setting since you don't come across big, heavily armoured monsters all the time, but we've found it to be a neat simplification of the base True20 system.

Cheers

 

[trilobite]

Our only real complaints is in fact with the damage track. In my opinion, Hit Points were simply replaced by two other less predictable resources: damage ticks on the track and conviction. The reliance on conviction is actually a drawback in my opinion. We found that players horded their conviction because of essentially role they play in combat longevity. So, instead of using conviction to perform dramatic actions with flare and gusto, they were all saved for the crucial toughness save. To a lesser extent, another complaint is with the status effects built into the damage track. My players felt that many of these effects (e.g., stunning) just weren't very fun at the frequency they occurred. Sitting around watching your friends play, while you loose a turn may be realistic, but it isn't very entertaining.

So to paraphase, as a mechanic the damage track holds up well, it just wasn't our cup of tea and didn't promote the style of game we wanted to play (high flamboyant action). In a more gritty game it might perform more to our expectation. Since other portions of True20 do support crazy imaginative maneuvers by the players, we are presently using a True20 hybrid. We've kept the character generation rules, the combat system and the magic system, while simply dumping the damage track.

Humm…that is disconcerting. I am working on a 1930's Pulp Adventure game and I was hoping that the True20 rule set would actually help to foster the genre's fast, furious, and fun action. I want to see the type of combat that you would see in a Indiana Jones movie. I will have to sit down and run some mock combats and see how it shakes out.

 

[Wrathamon]

Our only real complaints is in fact with the damage track. In my opinion, Hit Points were simply replaced by two other less predictable resources: damage ticks on the track and conviction. The reliance on conviction is actually a drawback in my opinion. We found that players horded their conviction because of essentially role they play in combat longevity. So, instead of using conviction to perform dramatic actions with flare and gusto, they were all saved for the crucial toughness save. To a lesser extent, another complaint is with the status effects built into the damage track. My players felt that many of these effects (e.g., stunning) just weren't very fun at the frequency they occurred. Sitting around watching your friends play, while you loose a turn may be realistic, but it isn't very entertaining.

I will have to agree that i have witnessed this myself. People do hoard conviction to only be used for making saves... I have started thinking about adding in something like the swashbuckler cards (nifty moves that you can perform during the game). They basically get two sets of conviction type points. One only for saves the other for nifty things.

When I played DAOC (mmo) we didn't like getting stunned or mez'd. Sitting around and doing nothing is never fun. Same goes in a paper and dice game (maybe more so cause a round could last a fair amount of time depending on play style). I havent figured out wether to dump the stun or not.

 

[Jack Morgan]

While I agree that the damage track of True20 isn't difficult and works pretty well once the players and the DM get used to it, I would disagree that it is fundamentally simpler than HP. There isn't much simpler than, subtracting damage from your HP until you reach 0 at which point you drop unconscious.

.

Right you are, I guess i just like the track better than hit points.