"Try Castles & Crusades", they say. But no one's playing it!

[Treebore]

One thing I have relearned, since I forgot about it between 2001 and 2005, is that simpler IS better. So I have conciously emblazoned that "lesson" into my psyche so I will never forget it again.

 

[Rothe]

When I was talking numbers, I meant total sales in all channels. There are some titles that can sell over 5,000 in the hobby alone....

Wow! How can you guys stay in business or do this full time? If a book costs $40 (maybe low, maybe high) were talking only $200,000 for a "hit." That has to go to pay how many people, costs, overhead, benefits, etc. After all that what is the net profit or margin on these things?

 

[dcas]

I believe one should select a system based on the sort of feel that it's going to provide - not to solve gaming difficulties.

If someone is having difficulty running a 3.5 game, then why continue to run 3.5? Regardless of "feel," that is.

 

[WayneLigon]

That has to go to pay how many people, costs, overhead, benefits, etc. After all that what is the net profit or margin on these things?

Go read Chris' blog :/ That translates to 'what are these 'benefits' you speak of?'. Medical, dental, eyecare, sick leave... most of those things fall by the wayside for people who run small businesses.

I only know of one group of people playing C&C and I think they are going to abandon it for Savage Worlds; their son was going to run some things with C&C but I think he's switched over to SW as well. The FLGS here might have a copy of it; I know they have in the past, and they've sold at least the ones that they ordered the first time around. I have not had a chance to really look through it; I have no nostalgic yearning for the previous editions, but if I found it for $5.00 like one of the posters above I might pick it up Next time I visit my friends, I'll look through their C&C and see what I think.

 

[buzz]

Yeah, me too. It's just never been in problem, in my experience. Maybe it's a regional or generational thing?

It's a gamer thing. Getting my D&D group to play anything that's not D&D (even d20 stuff) is nigh impossible. Getting my HERO group to play anything that's not HERO is nigh impossible.

Poke around web fora and you'll find PLENTY of people complaining about how hard it is to get people to try new or different systems.

Is it 100% of gamers? No. Is it enough that I've seen the issue come up again and again? IME, yes.

 

[dcas]

I've never had a problem convincing my group to play something else. But then we're all friends, and I'm usually the GM.

With respect to HERO and the current version of D&D, both strike me as games that are difficult to master. So I can see why a group that has been playing one or the other might balk at the notion of learning yet another game. I wonder if the same thing happens with Rolemaster groups?

 

[Henry]

I've never had a problem convincing my group to play something else. But then we're all friends, and I'm usually the GM.

With respect to HERO and the current version of D&D, both strike me as games that are difficult to master. So I can see why a group that has been playing one or the other might balk at the notion of learning yet another game. I wonder if the same thing happens with Rolemaster groups?

I suspect it's often the exact opposite: Those who enjoy mastering one system, will probably enjoy mastering MORE than one. There are a few "I'll try anything!" people in my group; however, most of them are "I'll try anything ONCE." They enjoy their d20, usually D&D, and don't range really far outside of that.

 

[buzz]

With respect to HERO and the current version of D&D, both strike me as games that are difficult to master. So I can see why a group that has been playing one or the other might balk at the notion of learning yet another game. I wonder if the same thing happens with Rolemaster groups?

Yup. I also think that it's the difference between (and I'm stealing this from Chris Chinn) people who approach systems from a "let's see what this one can do" perpspective and those who are more "I need a system that plays the way I like to play." The latter greatly involves the player's comfort zone; they've learned the system and hammered out how it relates to the social contract. Blowing that up and starting from scratch, thus, becomes really unappealing.

EDIT: ...even when it's possible the new, untried system will enable their mode of play even better than the one they're comfortable with. IMO. This is what drives me nuts sometimes about my current groups.

 

[bento]

I suspect it's often the exact opposite: Those who enjoy mastering one system, will probably enjoy mastering MORE than one. There are a few "I'll try anything!" people in my group; however, most of them are "I'll try anything ONCE." They enjoy their d20, usually D&D, and don't range really far outside of that.

Look at how many long-time players on this board said that they'd either quit playing or not switch when 4.0 is released. I'm sure there's been a survey that's been done regarding this topic.

Casual Gamer POV: If playing a game is an opportunity to hang out with friends and have a little fun, why challenge myself with different rules just because the DM isn't happy with something.

That's the crux of the matter - the DM will always have a greatest amount of frustration with the rules, while players only have to learn a small portion of them to get a lot of enjoyment out of the game.

Personally I'm all for the DM finding a ruleset that meets their needs, but most players have the attitude of "it's working for me - don't fix what ain't broke."

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Here's a review of C&C that I wrote: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11008.phtml

In it I compare C&C to 3e D&D, as well as earlier versions of D&D.

I like C&C, but I'll be the first to acknowledge that it isn't to everyone's tastes. And I like lots of other games as well! There are plenty of options out there to check out if you're feeling 'burnt out' by 3e.

Ah Akrasia, I still love the preamble to that review. It pretty much sums up my feelings for 3.x. My brother and I have taken to calling every book that WotC releases as a new weapon in the arms race.