(Trying Not To Start A Rant) The Other Side of the Christian/DnD Thing

[DM_Matt]

My general rule is older=more authoritative.

So you concede the point then.

Yes, there are several passages that offer kind advice about strangers and imigrants. But, I beleive, the assumption is that they're fellow Hebews. I admit this is debatable, however.

And while there are no laws specifically forbiding you to associate with non-Hebrews, there are lengthy cleansing, sometimes sacrificial, hoops you have to jump through if you associate unclean people (or even have your animals associate with anothers' animals), which considering what Leviticus says makes you unclean, is going to be anyone that isn't also a Hebrew.

Well, it seems odd that they would consider those inside the tribes to be immigrants, esp since what they mean is lacking family connections of any sort. Note that Ruth is a good example of a non-Israelite immigrant.

We also know that there was extensive contact between Israelites and others fro mthe beginning, so it does not seem plausable that the ritual cleanliness laws prevented contact between the Israelites and other peoples. Remember, the cleanshing process was usually nothing more than a bath. "He shall immerse himself in water and be unclean until the evening is a common theme."

While this is true of later jews (who were subject of the later covenants), and certainly true of us, the picture Leviticus paints is not of this nature.

LATER JEWS? You mean those from the next couple decades talked about in numbers and deuteronomy? It is completely specious to even try to claim taht Leviticus can be discussed out of the context of the rest of the Torah.

Broadly speaking, the laws of Leviticus are of two different types: moral sins and ritual sins. Ritual sins are stuff like you can't eat shellfish, or wear blended cloth clothing. Don't plant two types of plant in the same field, and midgets aren't allowed to come before an alter to God.

Moral sins are stuff like, "don't kill people." Often, you see words like "abomination" or "detestable" used to describe them in most bibles.

But the catch is, the word they translate as "abomination" and "detestable" is often to'ebah, which means, literally, "ritually unclean." It's the same word used to describe the "ritual sins." If the author would have wanted to describe moral sin, he'd have used the word "zimah." (Which *is* used in some places, but not when refering to sexual acts).

In the world of Leviticus, a lot of what we today see as moral sins were ritual sins. Beastiality wasn't a moral sin (a zimah) like murder was. It was a ritual sin (a to'ebah) like eating a lobster.

EDIT EDIT: This is not to say that they were "lesser" sins, though. You could fix some a moral sins with animal sacrifice, but the punishment for a ritual sin was sometimes death.

EDIT: I just thought, this post may step over the "no religion" line. If so, mods, feel free to delete it. I won't mind.

I cannot verify or deny your wording claims, but as far as actual moral divisions, you still are wrong. The connection between sex and ritual acts was always there, but to look at Leviticus as simply a set of rules of separation is highly simplistic, and to ignore the role that sexual acts play in the text as a whole robs it of most of it smeaningful content. The division of the sorts of sins that you make never were a religious or legal reality. You are just artificially dividing up words.

 

[Wormwood]

Good discussion while it lasted, and I'd like to thank y'all for opening my eyes to two salient facts:

1. There are more Christian gamers around than I thought. Pretty cool.

2. The last two pages proved why these discussions *should* remain off these boards. Some folks just can't help themselves, can they? Thanks for illustrating the point.

 

[Pseudonym]

Broadly speaking, the laws of Leviticus ... midgets aren't allowed to come before an alter to God.

Does this mean that Bible literalists won't let midgets worship?

 

[Piratecat]

Due to my faith there are just some things I have to speak on, and I hope to God I chose wisely on this one.

Not here, there isn't. When you post at EN World you do so with the understanding that some discussion is neither permitted nor appropriate. I was hoping people would be able to keep from criticizing and analyzing other peoples' beliefs. I'm impressed that it continued for five pages, but frankly I'm disappointed that this was brought to a screeching halt.

Thread closed.