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TSR/WotC Adventures - Are they REALLY any good? (Warning: Possible Spoilers)
- Thread starter Stormonu
- Start date
Completely agree that Keep on the Shadowfell did 4e no favors at all.
Compare that to the early days of 3e when things like Green Ronin's Freeport series were coming out. H.P. Lovecraft + pirates of the Caribbean = pure awesome. It was stuff like that, not the details of the system itself, that got me back into gaming when 3e was released.
Compare that to the early days of 3e when things like Green Ronin's Freeport series were coming out. H.P. Lovecraft + pirates of the Caribbean = pure awesome. It was stuff like that, not the details of the system itself, that got me back into gaming when 3e was released.
3rd party adventures and Dungeon probably helped make up for the lack of adventures produced by WotC during the 3E days. (and/or the lack of quality of the adventures they did release)
This provided an alternate route to show up what the system could do and how it would handle various situations.
I think a large number of well written/thought out adventures would have helped with some of the critism of 4E, with regards to stuff like Skill Challenges.
Absolutely. In addition to scenario design & flavor, the other thing the third party publishers did was figure out innovative ways to use the game's mechanics.
Skill challenges are a perfect case in point. They always struck me as the kernel of a good idea that just wasn't developed well. If enough third party designers had been allowed to play around with it, they might have found the awesome
Steely_Dan
First Post
In 25 tears I have only DMed one module (though own many), 2nd Ed Ravenloft's The Night of the Living Dead as an afternoon one-off, but I think the best modules I have read (and would like to run) are the 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms/Horde series by Troy Denning (the first one was called The Black Courser).
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HarbingerX
Rob Of The North
From the modules I've DM'd and played, making a memorable module to me all comes down to one thing - creating an interesting environment independent from the PCs, then drop them in or give them an excuse to go there.
Any reasonably-sized environment (~30 locations/people) will have multiple ways in/out and multiple decisions to make. Those choices will make for a different experience each time. Some will lead to death, others won't. A large location (~100 locations/people) will be good for a lot of gaming. String a few large ones together and you've got the basis of a campaign.
Any reasonably-sized environment (~30 locations/people) will have multiple ways in/out and multiple decisions to make. Those choices will make for a different experience each time. Some will lead to death, others won't. A large location (~100 locations/people) will be good for a lot of gaming. String a few large ones together and you've got the basis of a campaign.
A non-scientific survey of what comes to mind when I think of great adventures.
B2 Keep on the Borderlands (Basic)/Return to the Keep on the Borderlands (2nd Edition): Iconic. Good setting and NPC's (better in Return). Modular cave exploration with a variety of enemies, and decently motivated conflicts and alliances among them. Played it, ran it.
The Sunless Citadel (3e). Interesting dungeon backstory, especially the missing party angle. Interesting McGuffin (healing apple) with campaign implications. Competing tribes of enemies. Meepo (excellent iconic NPC). Evil druids. A dragon at first level. Interesting room with goblins and hobgoblins "shooting gallery" that's hard for the PC's to get passed. Decent town as "home" -- but not as interesting as the Keep on that score. Played it, ran it.
The Village of Hommlett (AD&D). Interesting setting and NPC's. Fascinating back story that links to major Greyhawk themes and sets up Temple of Elemental Evil. Memorable fight in the opening frog attack, before you even reach the dungeon. Played it.
Forge of Fury (3e). Iconic setting in a fallen dwarven citadel. Interesting mix of monsters. Interesting traps. Memorable fight to get in the main entrance, memorably fight with the dragon below. Played it, ran it.
Standing Stones (3e). Druidic forest setting. Interesting village. Weird magic. A ghost with a secret. A labyrinth. Non-evil undead. Played it, ran it.
Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (AD&D). Mountain setting with interesting wilderness encounters -- getting to the dungeon is an expedition in itself. Weird, new monsters. Interesting door complexities. Backstory is highly meaningful to the Greyhawk setting. Fascinating final monster. Played it, ran it.
Ghost Tower of Inverness (AD&D). Weird stuff. A chessboard, swimming with manta rays. The Soul Gem. Played it.
Against the Giants Series/Drow Series (AD&D) The original adventure path. Great, complex set of adventures, very satisfying to complete. Played it.
Red Hand of Doom(3e) Never played it, always wanted. War is a fascinating topic, and this module seems to do it better than others that have tried (Red Arrow, Black Shield was a noble effort, but not as good, I think, never having run either.)
Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh series (AD&D). Fun set of interconnected adventures. I like the maritime element, the smuggling, and the lizardman lair.
B2 Keep on the Borderlands (Basic)/Return to the Keep on the Borderlands (2nd Edition): Iconic. Good setting and NPC's (better in Return). Modular cave exploration with a variety of enemies, and decently motivated conflicts and alliances among them. Played it, ran it.
The Sunless Citadel (3e). Interesting dungeon backstory, especially the missing party angle. Interesting McGuffin (healing apple) with campaign implications. Competing tribes of enemies. Meepo (excellent iconic NPC). Evil druids. A dragon at first level. Interesting room with goblins and hobgoblins "shooting gallery" that's hard for the PC's to get passed. Decent town as "home" -- but not as interesting as the Keep on that score. Played it, ran it.
The Village of Hommlett (AD&D). Interesting setting and NPC's. Fascinating back story that links to major Greyhawk themes and sets up Temple of Elemental Evil. Memorable fight in the opening frog attack, before you even reach the dungeon. Played it.
Forge of Fury (3e). Iconic setting in a fallen dwarven citadel. Interesting mix of monsters. Interesting traps. Memorable fight to get in the main entrance, memorably fight with the dragon below. Played it, ran it.
Standing Stones (3e). Druidic forest setting. Interesting village. Weird magic. A ghost with a secret. A labyrinth. Non-evil undead. Played it, ran it.
Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (AD&D). Mountain setting with interesting wilderness encounters -- getting to the dungeon is an expedition in itself. Weird, new monsters. Interesting door complexities. Backstory is highly meaningful to the Greyhawk setting. Fascinating final monster. Played it, ran it.
Ghost Tower of Inverness (AD&D). Weird stuff. A chessboard, swimming with manta rays. The Soul Gem. Played it.
Against the Giants Series/Drow Series (AD&D) The original adventure path. Great, complex set of adventures, very satisfying to complete. Played it.
Red Hand of Doom(3e) Never played it, always wanted. War is a fascinating topic, and this module seems to do it better than others that have tried (Red Arrow, Black Shield was a noble effort, but not as good, I think, never having run either.)
Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh series (AD&D). Fun set of interconnected adventures. I like the maritime element, the smuggling, and the lizardman lair.
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TSR adventures that I've run and enjoyed include:
WotC adventures I've run and enjoyed:
I've used maps and the occasional personality or bit of backstory from other TSR/WotC adventures (this is the main way I use published modules), but I don't think that really counts as running them. And there are some modules that I didn't really enjoy when I ran them, like U2, U3 and Q1.
*Night's Dark Terror, adapted for my current 4e campaign, and spread out over many more levels than the original envisages;
*Descent into the Depths of the Earth (D1 only, not the Shrine), adapted to Rolemaster;
*G1-G3, run as-published for high level AD&D (nothing better for those modules than a 10th level ranger with a +4 two-handed sword);
*Castle Amber, adapted for 3E (but we only got through half of the castle - I found the module more fun than the system);
*OA3 Ochimo the Spirit Warrior, and OA7 Test of the Samuari, adapted to Rolemaster - both very flavourful, and although OA7 as written is rather railroady that can fairly easily be toned down;
*Many of the mini-adventures that came on cards with the City of Greyhawk boxed set.
*Descent into the Depths of the Earth (D1 only, not the Shrine), adapted to Rolemaster;
*G1-G3, run as-published for high level AD&D (nothing better for those modules than a 10th level ranger with a +4 two-handed sword);
*Castle Amber, adapted for 3E (but we only got through half of the castle - I found the module more fun than the system);
*OA3 Ochimo the Spirit Warrior, and OA7 Test of the Samuari, adapted to Rolemaster - both very flavourful, and although OA7 as written is rather railroady that can fairly easily be toned down;
*Many of the mini-adventures that came on cards with the City of Greyhawk boxed set.
WotC adventures I've run and enjoyed:
*Bastion of Broken Souls (first half only, not the positive energy plane crawl), adapted to Rolemaster - this module has excellent thematic potential but suffers in the execution - because 3E really only has conflict resolution rules for combat, many of the NPCs are stipulated as attacking even when social interaction would make more sense, and when I ran it I disregarded those stipulations - the warrior mage PC persuading the angel who was a living gate to let herself be killed, in the interests of compassion and humanity, was one of the roleplaying highlights of that campaign;
*Sleeper in Dreams (only bits of the first half) - adapted to 4e, this city adventure has some nice Far Realms cultists;
*Thunderspire Labyrinth - I spread this out over many more levels in my 4e game than it is designed for, and ignored a lot of the staging advice - once you do that, it has some nice maps and interesting situations - I haven't run the Horned Hold yet, though, because my PCs negotiated with the duergar to redeem the slaves rather than trying to invade a duergar fortress.
*Sleeper in Dreams (only bits of the first half) - adapted to 4e, this city adventure has some nice Far Realms cultists;
*Thunderspire Labyrinth - I spread this out over many more levels in my 4e game than it is designed for, and ignored a lot of the staging advice - once you do that, it has some nice maps and interesting situations - I haven't run the Horned Hold yet, though, because my PCs negotiated with the duergar to redeem the slaves rather than trying to invade a duergar fortress.
I've used maps and the occasional personality or bit of backstory from other TSR/WotC adventures (this is the main way I use published modules), but I don't think that really counts as running them. And there are some modules that I didn't really enjoy when I ran them, like U2, U3 and Q1.
delericho
Legend
When I ran this adventure, my players decided to abandon their explorations just before encountering the dragon. I was gutted!
This is an adventure that I found plays better than it reads - on a readthrough, it seemed like a fairly standard dungeon crawl, nothing much to see here. But when playing, yeah, it was a lot of fun. The only thing I think it needs is a bit of a stronger hook, to keep the PCs going to the end!
However, "Forge of Fury" did have one incredibly unfortunate legacy, due to the infamous Roper encounter. As we know, per the 3e DMG, it is recommended to include a small percentage of "overwhelming" encounters. FoF actually applied this advice, and so included an extremely deadly encounter with a Roper. There's even a sidebar in the adventure specifically noting that this was what they were doing!
But after playing the adventure, there was a huge outcry from players, that it somehow wasn't "fair" to include this encounter in the adventure. And, as a result of this, WotC have almost never again done something like that - encounters have now been much more level-appropriate. And their published adventures have been the poorer for it.
A real shame, not least since FoF was the second official 3e module published (outside of Dungeon, of course).
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Yeah, these two phrases are joined at the hip for me!
NDT was better the second time around, I'll give it that; but by 'better' I mean it went from abysmal up to merely below average. The best use I could see for it now is to be the core region of a campaign that starts there; all the little mini-adventures within NDT get fleshed out into something a bit more significant (e.g. "Expedition to the Ruins of Xitaqa" could easily become its own complete adventure) and the campaign rattles around in there for ages.
But to stick that thing into a pre-existing world is nearly impossible unless you've got a 200 x 300 mile chunk of a landmass to spare and you can somehow get the party to go there...
As for the main topic: those modules you listed as being good, what in your view made them good?
Lanefan
