TWF & Shield Bash

[Kularian]

No; you could have a +4 enhancement bonus to the shield bonus and Bashing, for a total of +5; and also a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and Holy and Flaming Burst, for a total of +5.

Or, indeed, a +4 enhancement bonus to the shield bonus and Bashing and Heavy Fortification, for a total of +10, and also a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and Holy and Flaming Burst and Icy Burst and Speed, for a total of +10.

You don't combine the market price modifiers of the shield and weapon abilities to make a single modifier; rather, it's more like a double weapon, where the two ends are tracked separately. It's a magic shield, and it's also a magic weapon.

-Hyp.

I just figured this out, lol. Sorry about the later misunderstanding, for some reason I read it as I could do one or the other. So that makes my shield even awesomer. (yeah, that's right. Awesomer.)

Alright, now I'm just getting ridiculous, but another question:
Two shields, wielded at the same time:

First has +5 Enhancement Bonus to AC, Bashing, SR 17; and +5 to hit/damage, defending, Throwing, Returning, and Flaming Burst

Second has +1 enhancement bonus to AC, Bashing, Heavy Fortification, and ghost touch; and +5 to hit/damage, defending, Throwing, Retuning, and Shocking Burst.

Assuming the shield AC's, nor the enhancement bonuses for them stack, for a Heavy Shield, we're looking at +7 AC. However, if I take advantage of both shields' Defending ability, and add it to my AC, it's +17 AC, from two shields alone, putting me at 27. ....That can't be right.

Well, then again, they are, essentially, two +10/+10 magical shields. But stripping them bare, except for AC Bonuses puts them at a +5/+6 and a 0/+6, which is still rather hefty.

And if you're willing to go the extra mile, making armor w/ armor spikes, which have the +5 and defending, adds another 5 (not counting the armor bonus itself) to AC. It's costly, sure, but that's 5 permanent AC. Hm...this idea has reformed my entire idea about how to powergame in D&D...

 

[Legildur]

Two shields, wielded at the same time:....

You would be struck by lightning from the old gods of 1E....

 

[ValhallaGH]

There is a question as to the stacking of defending. And if you came to my table with +5 Defending Armor Spikes, always set to "defend", then I would tell you "No."

Two-Shield fighting is cool. Anyone that's seen Season 2 of Samurai Jack has seen plenty of cool two-shield fighting. Trying to cheese it even further than it was meant to be will get you smacked down by any DM with stones.

 

[MarkB]

Hehehe, we'll see about Captain America,

But, while looking through the PHB II, I stumbled across the Agile Shield Fighter Feat, which does, and I quote (I like quoting, hehe):

Benefit: When making a shield bash and armed strike attack as part of a full attack action, you take a -2 penalty on each attack. These penalties replace the normal ones you incur for fighting with two weapons.

So...by RAW, with this feat and then the TWF feat, I'd be at 0/0 for penalties right away, yes?

No. Like the feat says, those -2/-2 are not two-weapon-fighting penalties, they simply replace the two-weapon-fighting penalties. As a result, taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat has no effect upon those penalties, and nor does any other feat or class feature which reduces the penalties for fighting with two weapons.

 

[Kularian]

Okay, fair enough to all of the 'Death by DM' comments, lol.

I'm not a powergamer, so I probably wouldn't ever do anything close to that. But when coming up with designs for uber-characters, it's still a possibility.

No. Like the feat says, those -2/-2 are not two-weapon-fighting penalties, they simply replace the two-weapon-fighting penalties. As a result, taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat has no effect upon those penalties, and nor does any other feat or class feature which reduces the penalties for fighting with two weapons.

Ah, good point. Making the Agile Shield Fighter feat kinda worthless for me. Meh, that's fine.

So here's what I have so far, and anyone can feel free to correct me as they wish:

Currently using a Longsword and a Large Spiked Wooden Shield.
1d8 w/ my main hand, and 1d6 w/ my offhand, both at a -4 weapon penalty.
Picking up Oversized TWF, that reduces the penalties to -2/-2, which is much more desirable.
Upon being able to prestige into Tempest, by my third level in the Tempest class, the penalties are now reduced to 0/0, making it essentially 'perfect' TWF.
When the money is added into the picture, I upgrade my shield to have the bashing property, increasing its damage to 1d10 (or 2d6, depending on the table used.)
By picking up Improved Shield Bash, I will retain my shield bonus to AC, despite bashing people's faces with it.

So, with a little work, and a magic enhancement, the shield becomes essentially a Bastard Sword (or 1h Greatsword), which is enhanceable for defense and offense, though it does cost quite a bit of money. Also, it constantly gives me a defensive shield bonus, more than that of TWD, and also enhanceable. I'd say, despite the feats needed, it's quite a viable build.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I'd say, despite the feats needed, it's quite a viable build.

You'd be correct. I've had two characters that used a similar build (one was a Dwarven Defender ) and I've seen three others in play. All were very effective and quite a surprise to the enemies.

 

[Kularian]

You'd be correct. I've had two characters that used a similar build (one was a Dwarven Defender ) and I've seen three others in play. All were very effective and quite a surprise to the enemies.

Well, that's a bit of a relief. I wasn't entirely certain how effective it'd be, considering its...strangeness. But it looks to be a decent way to build a character, and I think this will become a norm for me, hehe.

 

[Kalshane]

I played a sword and board fighter with all the special shield feats from S&F and DotF and he was a blast to play. Double shield damage on a charge. A chance to knock opponents prone or backwards any time I whacked them with the shield, etc. AFAIK, none of those feats made it into 3.5, though.

Still, sounds like you've got a pretty solid build here. Better AC than most TWFers and comparable damage output. The only place you're going to run into trouble is having to pay for both AC upgrades and attack upgrades on your shield on top of keeping your other weapon up to speed.

 

[PallidPatience]

Honestly, I don't see the problem with the two +5 shields with defending, and the +5 armor spikes with defending.

Honestly, how expensive are three +5 defending weapons? Pretty damn expensive, that's how. That's a lot of a character's wealth that's not going into Cloaks of Resistance, and Strength, Dex, and Con boosting items.