TWF & Shield Bash

[Kularian]

I'm making a character for an upcoming game, (here, actually,) and I found something that would be awesome if it worked, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'm playing a Ranger, and planning on going with the TWF combat style tree. Only, I'm planning on using a Sword 'n Board style, only my board has spikes on it,

My actual question: Do the Improved TWF and Greater TWF work with a spiked shield? I really don't see why not, besides the strangeness of how it would look, hehe. To quote the d20SRG.org...

If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

You can bash an opponent with a light shield or heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon.

On a related note, in case it comes up, I don't believe the Two-Weapon Defense works for this, unfortunately. It specifies 'when wielding two weapons,' and while I'm using the shield as an off-hand weapon, a shield is not a weapon. Am I right on this note as well?

 

[nittanytbone]

Sure, it works. Its not super optimal, but it works.

Get a +1 bashing shield for even more fun.

It is just sub-optimal in terms of damage output AND protection gained unless you have a nice magic shield. I would suggest a magic heavy shield and a light on-hand weapon (like a short sword).

You could take Two Weapon Defense, but it wouldn't stack with your shield. TWD provides a Shield Bonus to AC, as does a Shield; you'd just get the better of the two.

 

[Hypersmurf]

On a related note, in case it comes up, I don't believe the Two-Weapon Defense works for this, unfortunately. It specifies 'when wielding two weapons,' and while I'm using the shield as an off-hand weapon, a shield is not a weapon. Am I right on this note as well?

TWF/ITWF and Two-Weapon Defense both work just fine... but remember, even with Improved Shield Bash, the shield bonus from using a shield and the shield bonus from TWD will not stack.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It is just sub-optimal in terms of damage output AND protection gained unless you have a nice magic shield. I would suggest a magic heavy shield and a light on-hand weapon (like a short sword).

That will still give you -4/-4, not -2/-2; it's the off-hand weapon that must be light to reduce the penalty.

-Hyp.

 

[Wrathamon]

If you are going to TWF and Shield bash you should use a Light Shield as your off hand weapon. A Heavy Shield would give you greater penalties to hit.

Could you use Oversized TWF to use a Heavy or Extreme Shield?

 

[Iku Rex]

That will still give you -4/-4, not -2/-2; it's the off-hand weapon that must be light to reduce the penalty.

All he has to do is use the shield as his primary weapon and the light weapon as his off-hand weapon.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Could you use Oversized TWF to use a Heavy or Extreme Shield?

Not sure about the Extreme shield without the book handy, but the Heavy shield would be fine.

All he has to do...

I figured you'd be along shortly

-Hyp.

 

[Kularian]

*nod* that's what I figured, though I did forget that a heavy shield adds on a -4/-4 penalty... :\

I mean, then again, if I need the to-hit, I don't have to use my shield to attack, so I think it'll work out nicely.

So, to add onto the question, would an eventual PrC of Tempest be worth it? I'd lose out on the Tempest Defense skill, but the Ambidexterity and TW Versatility would be nice bonuses.

K, more questions: Since the SRD says that a shield's defensive enhancement bonuses don't allow it to do more damage, but it can be made magical in its own right. So I could have, say, a +4 Enhancement bonus to defense, Bashing, +1 Enhancement to hit/damage, and Holy and Flaming Burst, for a total of +10 (ridiculous I know, just hypothecially speaking).

And if my shield is spiked, which it is, would throwing the Bashing enhancement allow it to still increase it's damage by two steps? Then it would be a...d10, I think. Not too shabby for a shield,

Edit:

All he has to do is use the shield as his primary weapon and the light weapon as his off-hand weapon.

.....that's ingenious, lol. *cough*

This might become a standard build method for me in the future, lol.

 

[Hypersmurf]

K, more questions: Since the SRD says that a shield's defensive enhancement bonuses don't allow it to do more damage, but it can be made magical in its own right. So I could have, say, a +4 Enhancement bonus to defense, Bashing, +1 Enhancement to hit/damage, and Holy and Flaming Burst, for a total of +10 (ridiculous I know, just hypothecially speaking).

No; you could have a +4 enhancement bonus to the shield bonus and Bashing, for a total of +5; and also a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and Holy and Flaming Burst, for a total of +5.

Or, indeed, a +4 enhancement bonus to the shield bonus and Bashing and Heavy Fortification, for a total of +10, and also a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and Holy and Flaming Burst and Icy Burst and Speed, for a total of +10.

You don't combine the market price modifiers of the shield and weapon abilities to make a single modifier; rather, it's more like a double weapon, where the two ends are tracked separately. It's a magic shield, and it's also a magic weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Iku Rex]

I figured you'd be along shortly

You remember me!
I'll skip the usual arguments proving that shields are weapons and that the default rules for weapons apply to shields. Instead I'll let Andy Collins have a say:

Can a character make a shield bash attack using the
shield as a primary weapon or can it be used only as an offhand
weapon?
While the rules describe a shield bash as an off-hand
weapon, that’s simply an assumption (that your primary hand is
holding a weapon). There’s nothing stopping you from
declaring your shield bash as your primary weapon. Of course,
that means that any attack you make with your other hand
becomes a secondary weapon.