TWF vs. archery rangers

[jasin]

It doesn't look like the two styles compare well.

1) The two-blade style gets you a feat (Toughness) and a secondary ability you can't get anywhere else in the game (use one-handed weapons in your off-hand), the archery style gets you a feat (Defensive Mobility). Even if you want to be an archer, wouldn't it be better to take the two-blade style? Unless, I suppose, you were absolutely sure you don't ever want to use any of your powers in melee.

2) Why wouldn't you want to be an archer? It seems to me that most powers work either with a ranged weapon or two weapons. And a ranged weapon has the benefits of 1) using Dex which boost your AC; 2) using the ranger's Prime Shot feature; 3) letting you stay back rather than being in the troll's face; 4) being twice as cheaper to enhance than two weapons. Other than potential brokenness like Blade Cascade, are there two-weapons-only powers that would encourage a ranger to go with two weapons rather than a bow?

 

[Sitara]

You are correct. Even for an archer there is no reason to select the archery style. One way to make it more attractive would be to make Prime Shot available only to Rangers who select ranged combat option, and to increase teh attack bonus from prime shot by +1/tier (so +3 at epic). I personally would also add +1 damage/tier to attacks with a bow as well (all bow attacks, not jsut prime shot).

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

1. It makes sense that archers would prefer Defensive Mobility to Toughness, and probably wouldn't be sinking enough feats into two-weapon fighting to make it worthwhile (they'd be better off with a longsword wielded two-handed for the +1 damage), so I wouldn't say this is a huge problem. If I was making an archer ranger, I'd go for Defensive Mobility. (Plus, both archery paragon paths require the Archer style.)

2. The biggest difference is that TWF rangers don't take OAs when they attack. Both builds emphasize mobility, but the archer build really punishes you for letting bad guys get up in your face. In any case, while some powers are melee OR ranged, probably 50% of the catalog is either melee-only or ranged-only, and some of the melee ones are fairly cool. Dire Wolverine Strike is a pretty sweet whirlwind attack right at first level.

 

[jasin]

1. It makes sense that archers would prefer Defensive Mobility to Toughness, and probably wouldn't be sinking enough feats into two-weapon fighting to make it worthwhile (they'd be better off with a longsword wielded two-handed for the +1 damage),

If he does that, he can't use his TWF-or-archery powers, of which he is almost guaranteed to have at least a few.

so I wouldn't say this is a huge problem. If I was making an archer ranger, I'd go for Defensive Mobility. (Plus, both archery paragon paths require the Archer style.)

Ah, that's true, I forgot the paragon paths. Still, it's a bit strange that you need a basically external carrot to make the archery style actually better for someone who wants to do archery.

2. The biggest difference is that TWF rangers don't take OAs when they attack.

Neither do archery rangers if they're standing 10 sqaures away. Or if they just shift and shoot, in most cases.

In any case, while some powers are melee OR ranged, probably 50% of the catalog is either melee-only or ranged-only, and some of the melee ones are fairly cool.

Cooler than the ranged ones, to make up for the fact that you'll be getting attacked much more often and probably hit more often, since you spent at least as much on Str and you did on Dex?

 

[Blackbrrd]

You have to have chosen the archery fighting style to be able to take the two paragon paths that help archery! )

The two other ranger paragon paths requires melee weapons for their powers.

 

[Zurai]

If he does that, he can't use his TWF-or-archery powers, of which he is almost guaranteed to have at least a few.

Uhhhh... yes he can? He just needs to use a light blade for the offhand. And, frankly, there are SO many Archery-useable powers that allow shifts before the attack (including an at-will) that I suspect an archer ranger will only very, very rarely get OAs from attacking.

 

[jasin]

ZombieRoboNinja said

(they'd be better off with a longsword wielded two-handed for the +1 damage),

and then I said

If he does that, he can't use his TWF-or-archery powers, of which he is almost guaranteed to have at least a few.

and then you said

Uhhhh... yes he can?

You need to read more carefully.

 

[Zurai]

I read it just fine. You were complaining that the ability to use non-Light Blades made taking the Archery specialization useless; I was pointing out that an Archer Ranger can still use every single two-weapon attack, they just can't use d10 bastard swords for their offhand.

By the way, I think the ideal ranger is actually throwing. Especially an Eladrin ranger with the Eladrin Soldier feat using javelins. That way you can use your melee-or-ranged powers as either melee or ranged without having to swap weapons, and the Eladrin Soldier feat makes javelins deal the same average damage as a longbow anyhow.

 

[jasin]

You responded with "Uhhhh... yes he can?" to my comment that a ranger wielding a longsword in two hands for +1 damage can't use his TWF-or-archery powers.

Which in fact he can't.

So I maintain that you do need to read more carefully.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

*snip*

Not everyone cares about numbers. Some just want to look cool with dual flashing blades or a spinning staff.