TWF with Speed weapons

[Wyvernhand]

Its my reading that Speed doesn't stack with itself. If you have one Speed weapon, you gain an extra attack. That extra attack HAS to be with the Speed weapon because of the wording "the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it". So the attack HAS to be with a weapon with the Speed property.

If the character has 2 Speed weapons, he's restricted by the phrase "(This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)". To me, Speed is similar to Speed, and thusly wouldn't stack. The only boon that having 2 Speed weapons would have is that when you make a full attack, you may elect to make the extra attack with either of the Speed weapons (since the attack is made with it). Thus, its nearly completely redundant, but not completely.

And yes, Haste is pretty easy to get from other source that don't cost almost 40k gold. Boots of Speed give you 10 rounds of Haste/day for 12,000g. Thats 3 rounds of Haste per combat 3 combats/day, with 1 floating round to use in case one of those combats runs long. Remember, you don't need to activate the Haste on rounds you charge, activate items that are a standard action, or take any action that isn't a full attack. That means that 3-4 rounds/combat should be more than enough in most cases.

 

[Rampant]

Personally I take the does not stack line to mean that you can't benefit from haste and speed on the same weapon. I've seen different DMs do it both ways though.

 

[xigbar]

The effect of speed is specific to the weapon. The extra attack is generated by the weapon itself. There fore, each weapon you attack with that has the enhancement is entitled to an extra attack, neither of which stack with haste. Speed is not generally worth it, although I made a dual hand crossbow wielding build with that and splitting, so 1 speed on each weapon equaled a total of 4 extra attacks. Whether speed actually stacked with splitting is another question.

 

[Rampant]

they stack the dm just hates you

 

[Jackinthegreen]

If you have Flaming on a weapon, it affects only that weapon. Likewise, if you have Speed on a weapon it affects only that weapon. The fact that it says it doesn't benefit from similar effects such as Haste is basically there to prevent getting lots of extra attacks on that weapon.

The supposed RAW answer of two Speed weapons not allowing the extra attack with each one is BS. Even if it's intended to work such that multiple weapons with the enchantment only grant one extra attack total, it'd be a slap to the face for TWF (and your coffers!)

 

[RogueInRouge]

Personally I take the does not stack line to mean that you can't benefit from haste and speed on the same weapon.

+1 for this interpretation. If you're dual-wielding a Speed weapon in each hand, you get an extra attack with each one when you make a full attack.

If the GM argues that the Speed enhancement is really affecting the character by virtue of his holding the weapon, i.e. kind of a poor man's attack-action-specific version of Haste... then I'd say "Great, since my whole character is sped up then I guess I get an extra attack with the off-hand weapon too, even if it's NOT a Speed weapon!"

 

[Wyvernhand]

That's about the dumbest interpretation I've ever heard and is clearly not accurate. Speed weapons don't affect your whole body because you don't get the movement speed increase, the AC bonus, or the ref save bonus.

The fact of the matter is, all magical abilities that grant extra Haste-like attacks directly include that phrasing. It's clear from that that no character is able to gain morn than one extra attack from such an ability. The only item that varies from this is an item from the ELH which was written with 3.0 rules when Haste and similar effects worked different.

If faced with two possible readings of something, the most internally consistent reading is probably correct. Not letting Speed weapons stack is the most internally consistent reading, since it conforms with the rules presented in Haste, Valiant Fury, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and Snake's Swiftness.

 

[RogueInRouge]

That's about the dumbest interpretation I've ever heard and is clearly not accurate. Speed weapons don't affect your whole body because you don't get the movement speed increase, the AC bonus, or the ref save bonus.

Amen. So the effect applies only to a given weapon. So having a separate weapon that ALSO has the effect isn't stacking, any more than having two identical burst weapons is "stacking" the elemental damage type. So dual-wielding with a Speed weapon in each hand grants an extra attack for each weapon.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[kitcik]

Amen. So the effect applies only to a given weapon. So having a separate weapon that ALSO has the effect isn't stacking, any more than having two identical burst weapons is "stacking" the elemental damage type. So dual-wielding with a Speed weapon in each hand grants an extra attack for each weapon.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Logical, but not RAW. YOU are granted the extra attack and YOU cannot get more than one extra attack from a speed/haste benefit. As I said in a prior post, I would allow it. I just don;t think it's RAW.

 

[am181d]

Logical, but not RAW. YOU are granted the extra attack and YOU cannot get more than one extra attack from a speed/haste benefit. As I said in a prior post, I would allow it. I just don;t think it's RAW.

Raw or not, I can't see any reason NOT to let a PC get an extra attack for each weapon. It's not unbalancing.