Two handed weapons... *spoliers*

[Ioreck_Thorinback]

Ya, I love how using a one-handed weapon two handed immediately puts it on par with its proper two-handed counterparts...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hmmh, you can look at it that way: a longsword is not always versatile, but a longsword inted for such a use is.

A great sword does d10 damage if you are not really trained in it... if you have bastard sword proficiency, the exact same sword is now a bastard sword for you!

 

[Stalker0]

Hmmh, you can look at it that way: a longsword is not always versatile, but a longsword inted for such a use is.

A great sword does d10 damage if you are not really trained in it... if you have bastard sword proficiency, the exact same sword is now a bastard sword for you!

Unless you have that nifty +5 greatsword.

 

[Dracollich]

However the +1 can easily mean that in the end the BS user get's more damage because of the one attack the maul user missed more than him.

That's why I was only comparing the sword with the same +3 to hit. If we start to compare them against axes and hammers we have to factor the -1 to hit

I agree. The BS user will hit 5% more often. One other thing to consider though, the dwarf's dwarven weapon training: +2 damage.

With that said...
PC1 "I'm a BS user!"
PC2 "So, does that mean you have a high bluff?"

 

[Spatula]

After crunching some numbers, the greatsword definitely comes up short in average damage calculations compared to the greataxe & maul (which are pretty well balanced against one-another). The greatsword does around 0.4 points of damage less per attack than the others - not terribly significant unless you're a min-maxer. One interesting note is that heroic-tier PA (-2 / +3) improves the average sword damage but reduces the axe/maul damage against AC 16 (a typical value at low levels), although the impact is very slight in both cases.

But then it hit me - looking at average damage per round against a given AC only holds for basic attacks, which were 100% of your attacks in previous editions, but rarely used now. That +1 to hit for swords might be very important when it comes to using daily & encounter powers, although I'm not sure how to model the costs & benefits there except on a power-by-power basis.

 

[Surgoshan]

I think that after a few levels, your weapon choice won't really matter except in terms of flavor. Bonuses from levels and feats will start to overwhelm it.

 

[Ioreck_Thorinback]

The problem is that there are feats and powers to make using a shield better, and that there is nothing for two-handed weapons (power attack isn't *that* beneficial)

And it sucks that two-handing a falchion is worse than two-handing a longsword. Seriously sucks.

 

[Spatula]

Falchion vs 2H longsword vs AC 16, at level 1:
to hit: 3 weapon + 3 str + 1 fighter talent
damage: 3 str (+1 versatile, longsword only)

average damage for falchion: 8 * .55 + 16 * .05 = 5.2 damage per round
average damage for 2H longsword = 8.5 * .55 + 12 * .05 = 5.275 damage per round

Pretty comparable, actually.

 

[Zsig]

Falchion vs 2H longsword vs AC 16, at level 1:
to hit: 3 weapon + 3 str + 1 fighter talent
damage: 3 str (+1 versatile, longsword only)

average damage for falchion: 8 * .45 + 19 * .05 = 4.55 damage per round
average damage for 2H longsword = 8.5 * .45 + 12 * .05 = 4.425 damage per round

What about the High Crit from the falchion?...or it's already there?

 

[Spatula]

Well, I screwed up the math there in a couple of places... was computing vs AC 18 instead of AC 16 and was maxing out the extra dice from the falchion's high-crit. In the real calculation, they end up nearly the same (5.2 for falchion vs 5.275 for the longsword used 2H). The falchion will be better on 2[w] (or higher) powers, since the versatile bonus won't get multiplied, and the high-crit property improves as you level up, whereas the longsword used 2H will not.

2[w]+Str for Falchion (4d4+3), needing 9+ to hit:
(13 * .55) + (24 * .05) = 8.35

2[w]+Str for 2H Longsword (2d8+4), needing 9+ to hit:
(13 * .55) + (20 * .05) = 8.15

For example, at level 11...
Str 18, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, +3 weapon (+d6 on crits) = +15 dmg (+16 for longsword)

Falchion, 1[w] power, 11+ to hit: (20 * .45) + (43.5 * .05) = 11.175
2H Longsword, same thing: (20.5 * .45) + (34.5 * .05) = 10.95

Falchion, 2[w] power, 11+ to hit: (25 * .45) + (51.5 * .05) = 13.825
2H Longsword, same thing: (25 * .45) + (42.5 * .05) = 13.375

Note that you have access to 3[w] powers as dailies at 1st level.

In terms of raw damage, the greataxe is probably the big winner, but it remains to be seen how important that +1 to hit that you get with blades would be for non-reliable encounter/daily powers. You only get one shot to hit with them per fight, so you'd want every advantage you can get in order to connect.