Pathfinder 1E Uncanny Dodge, Climb and Acrobatics/Balance

[Starfox]

We've had a discussion about the use of uncanny dodge in relation to various ways of losing your dexterity bonus to armor class, exemplified by climbing and balancing.

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.

While climbing, you can’t move to avoid a blow, so you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any).

The question is, does uncanny dodge let you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing. Balancing is quite clear, as you become explicitly flat-footed, and this is exactly what uncanny dodge helps against. Climb is less clear. On one hand, it does not explicitly say you are flat-footed. On the other hand, separating flat-footedness from having no Dexterity to AC might be over-thinking, and the the two might mean exactly the same, being just a variation of language. Also, uncanny dodge explicitly cites "She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her." - both cases of losing Dex bonus while not being flat-footed. This could mean that these are the only two examples of this applying and that uncanny dodge helps against all other cases of losing your Dexterity bonus to AC.

I am leaning towards the later interpretation - that flat-footed and losing dexterity bonus to AC is one and the same, and that uncanny dodge helps against both unless explicitly stated otherwise.

 

[Derren]

Uncanny dodge protects against two things.

- Being caught flat footed
- Loosing your DEX bonus to AC when attacked by an invisible opponent.

Neither applies to losing the bonus because you are climbing.

 

[Starfox]

Uncanny dodge protects against two things.

- Being caught flat footed
- Loosing your DEX bonus to AC when attacked by an invisible opponent.

Neither applies to losing the bonus because you are climbing.

This was my initial reading too. But why then mention immobilized and feinted, neither of which is flat-footed?

While climbing, you can’t move to avoid a blow, so you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

The bolded part could be read to indicate that climbing is a case of being immobilized, which is specifically mentioned in uncanny dodge.

 

[delericho]

Uncanny dodge protects against two things.

- Being caught flat footed
- Loosing your DEX bonus to AC when attacked by an invisible opponent.

Neither applies to losing the bonus because you are climbing.

Got it in one.

 

[billd91]

This was my initial reading too. But why then mention immobilized and feinted, neither of which is flat-footed?.

As an example, non-exhaustive, of other things that can cause a character to lose their Dex bonus.

 

[Starfox]

Ok, people's reading of this rule appears consistent here. Overall there is a pretty high degree of trust in the ability of the designers to use a consistent vocabulary.

 

[Akillion]

You are all probably right, however, it flies in the face of good storytelling and memorable action. I love the idea of our rogue ducking and diving while on the tightrope as the city watch throw javelins at him or swinging sideways on his handhold to avoid the manticore spikes.

 

[Derren]

You are all probably right, however, it flies in the face of good storytelling and memorable action. I love the idea of our rogue ducking and diving while on the tightrope as the city watch throw javelins at him or swinging sideways on his handhold to avoid the manticore spikes.

Doing crazy over the top stuff is not automatically good storytelling.

 

[Hussar]

On the flip side, neither is outright forbidding that sort of thing in the mechanics.

 

[Akillion]

I don't think it would be too OP to let our rogue, lightly armoured and low HP as he is, get his dex bonus to AC in these circumstances.