Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: "Greyhawk" Initiative

The latest Unearthed Arcana by WotCs Mearls is up. "Mike Mearls introduces an alternative initiative system, inspired by AD&D and the journey to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin—the birthplace of D&D—for Gary Con 2017. While the initiative rules in fifth edition D&D are great for keeping the action moving and being easy to use at the table, the Greyhawk initiative variant takes a different approach. These rules add complexity, but with the goal of introducing more drama to combat."

He's calling it "Greyhawk Initiative". It'll be interesting to compare this to how we interpreted his earlier version of alternative initiative.

Mearls also talks about it in this video.

[video=youtube;hfSo4wVkwUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfSo4wVkwUw[/video]


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[FormerlyHemlock]

I think the article elides over the biggest effect on combat -- at a table where players will appreciate having each round be more of a tactical challenge, this system will drastically increase the time to run combats, as players hash out what their optimal strategies should be. With experience and DM prodding, perhaps this extra combat time can be minimized ("let's just use Maneuver E"), but I'm not seeing it.

Having used similar systems in the past and present: combats where players have to declare actions up front are either (1) straightforward and fast, or (2) complex and engaging--they feel fast even when they turn out to have been long by wall clock time. There are few occasions where a player has to just sit around not being allowed to talk to the DM while they are waiting for their turn. (That only happens when one player is doing something simple, like just making GWM attacks every turn, while other players are doing something complicated like a stealth duel or spell duel.)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Having used similar systems in the past and present: combats where players have to declare actions up front are either (1) straightforward and fast, or (2) complex and engaging-

Having also done so, I have to add: and/or (3) incredibly frustrating. ;P

Though this one really keeps the declarations pretty flexible, so that should be minimized.

 

[ad_hoc]

The standard initiative system was designed as a 'stop messing around and just take your turn' system, and I can see where having players declare types of actions at the start of the round rather than waiting until the character's turn might help 'analysis paralysis', but in reality, I think the paralysis will just be relocated from the player's turn to the start of the round, and magnified if other players disagree with the chosen tactics.

Multiple players at my table have severe Analysis Paralysis.

I tried to run standard initiative by saying 'it's your turn, got to decide now' but it just didn't work out. If I pushed it I feel like they just wouldn't come back to the game (and I wouldn't blame them) as they just didn't have the ability to do it.

Now under this initiative system everyone has a chat once at the beginning of the round. Everyone is engaged and helps everyone out. The actual in game combat time is reduced substantially, but more importantly it feels much faster.

Even without the AP players I would find it to be much more cinematic than standard initiative. Still, if I had a table of players who all took their actions immediately when their turn started and were able to resolve those actions quickly I doubt I would use this alternative system.

It's not for every table, but it is great for some tables.

 

[JeffB]

Adds alot of randomness and that will add some drama and keep players engaged more than (yawn) cyclic initiative. It's a bit fiddly, but I like it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I need to read over it. I'm interested in seeing how it works, but it looks a bit fiddly.

My biggest question is what the heck does this have to do with Greyhawk? That association makes me concerned with any other "Greyhawk variants" that Mearls may post.

Watching the video and GH means in this context D&D in the 70's and 80's.

 

[Yaarel]

Still seems you can draw, knock, pull, and loose an arrow before an adjacent enemy can hit you in the face, fairly consistently. Maybe if you're Legolas.
It's bad enough ranged attacks don't draw AoOs (among other things).
Weird.

Exactly. If anything, a bow is the *last* thing to go off in the initiative order. Its just that if the targets are many moves away before reaching the archer, then it doesnt matter if the archer goes last in initiative.

 

[Shasarak]

My group always rerolls initiative every round so I am not sure what this version would add to my game.

 

[Yaarel]

I wonder if in initiative order, it is possible for spells to have a number of points exactly equal to their Level?

Thus, cantrips always go first, with 0 points for the initiative order.
Level 1, is 1 point.
Level 3, is 3 points.
Level 9, is 9 points − almost always last.

 

[Yaarel]

how would this work using "light" "finesse" and "heavy" for weapon speed.

1d4 = light
1d6 = finesse
1d8 = weapon
1d10 = heavy

how would that change things?

I like the above weighting of weapons.

Melee
0 = unarmed attack
1d4 = light weapon
1d6 = finesse
1d8 = weapon
1d10 = heavy

Ranged
0 = shoot preloaded bow or preloaded crossbow
1d4 = throw light weapon (dagger, shuriken)
1d6 = throw finesse weapon (hand axe)
1d8 = load and shoot bow
1d12 = load and shoot crossbow

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Clever, but pass ... if you need five single-spaced pages to explain in what order players act in, this isn't my game.