Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: "Greyhawk" Initiative

The latest Unearthed Arcana by WotCs Mearls is up. "Mike Mearls introduces an alternative initiative system, inspired by AD&D and the journey to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin—the birthplace of D&D—for Gary Con 2017. While the initiative rules in fifth edition D&D are great for keeping the action moving and being easy to use at the table, the Greyhawk initiative variant takes a different approach. These rules add complexity, but with the goal of introducing more drama to combat."

He's calling it "Greyhawk Initiative". It'll be interesting to compare this to how we interpreted his earlier version of alternative initiative.

Mearls also talks about it in this video.

[video=youtube;hfSo4wVkwUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfSo4wVkwUw[/video]


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[Athinar]

Variant: Spell Disruption
For added AD&D flavor, you can introduce the spell disruption rule. Under this rule, if a creature that wants to cast a spell takes damage during the round before it can act, it is restricted to casting cantrips on its turn.

I say make the spell caster go to concentration camp first; failed save is cantrip

"concentration camp" is our term for the "Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage."

and the camp we are talking about is a camp like boot camp, football camp, etc, for training

 

[BookBarbarian]

I say make the spell caster go to...

Umm, did you mean to make such a casual reference? Or was this some tragic auto-correct thing?

 

[Athinar]

"concentration camp" is our term for the "Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage."

and the camp we are talking about is a camp like boot camp, football camp, etc, for training

 

[Mistwell]

But it does bring up a point, that others have already touched upon: ranged attacks are doubly rewarded under this system, with both a smaller initiative die and generally not needing to move. By contrast, a melee character ought to combine their attack with a move, just in case everyone nearby runs away. So, maybe like this instead:

Ranged attackers are also penalized in a way that isn't mentioned in the video. They no longer get to add their dexterity bonus to their initiative. Dex no has no impact on their initiative, whereas up until now it had a fairly meaningful impact. So they may be more likely to shoot earlier in the round, but they were always more likely to shoot earlier in the round because they were the ones with a higher dexterity score to begin with.

 

[arjomanes]

I like this system, but I'd never run it with anything other than Basic 5e. I think there might be too many variables and corner cases when you add in more complicated classes and feats.

 

[cbwjm]

Having read these this more detailed description of the rules, I quite like it. From the example it looks like it might make combat a little more interesting due to the uncertainty of actions.

 

[Athinar]

Did AD&D not have Weapon Speed Factor modifications for magic; a +1 reduced the speed factor by 1; possible use?

maybe be the 2nd had the Weapon Speed Factor modifications for magic

 

[Athinar]

My halfling assassin would move shot hide but not all was in that order; would slow her down allot

 

[cbwjm]

Did AD&D not have Weapon Speed Factor modifications for magic; a +1 reduced the speed factor by 1; possible use?

Spells had speed similar to weapons. In general it was a modifier equal to the spells level although I think divine magic was a bit slower than arcane. No idea if magic bonuses reduced speed factor it could be a good additional rule.

 

[werecorpse]

Wow, somebody else remembers the 'caller' concept. I'm usually greeted by blank looks when I mention that one.

Yes, I remember. Looking back now I see it as an attachment to the game due to its wargame roots. Happy to abandon that command structure.

I object slightly to the co-opting of the Greyhawk name to this initiative system, but I know I'm just being crotchety

My recollection of the way we played AD&D initiative (almost certainly incorrectly) was that if you got two attacks against a creature with one (or with one attack routine even if multi attacks like the gargoyles 4 attacks) you had one attack before and one after. As people got more and more attacks with haste or unearthed arcana specialisation the round got parsed even more. We would roll initiative once for each side on a d6 which only decided draws. So if you had a fighter with 3 attacks, a ranger with 2, a wizard casting a spell against say a hill giant with 1 attack and a hobgoblin archer with say 2 attacks and the players won the d6 initiative dice the round would go fighter first attack, ranger first attack, hobgoblin first attack, wizard only and fighter second attack, hill giant only attack, ranger second attack, hobgoblin second attack, fighter third attack.

I have memories as DM of calling for beginning of beginning of round attacks. Good times (but IMO the 5e initiative system is better).