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Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Wizards & Warlocks -- Hexblades, Raven Queens, and Lore Mastery!

Master of Hexes Starting at 14th level, you can use your Hexblade’s Curse again without resting, but when you apply it to a new target, the curse immediately ends on the previous target. Does this mean you can cast it one more time, or over and over again? And does the 1 minute duration reset upon a new target, or does it continue from the previous target?

Master of Hexes
Starting at 14th level, you can use your
Hexblade’s Curse again without resting, but
when you apply it to a new target, the curse
immediately ends on the previous target.


Does this mean you can cast it one more time, or over and over again? And does the 1 minute duration reset upon a new target, or does it continue from the previous target?
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
First a Rant:

I can't decide which is more upsetting, the absolute gut-punch that the Lore Wizard is for those of us who've been asking for a better sorcerer or that most everyone seems perfectly content with it.

It is abominable to see this after the sorcerer UA left me with little hope for improvements upon the sorcerer class. In part because if these are things the wizard is getting first, it will never feel like the sorcerer catches up, or is doing more than stealing big brothers toys. For example, elemental substitution, for free whenever you want. How long have people who play dragon sorcerers wanted this? How many different versions of metamagics costing points have been posted. Wizard just do that, whenever they want, as many times as they want.

But the rest of it is really aggravating.

When we bring up sorcerers maybe being underpowered because they don't have many spells, the first thing people say is "you don;t have a lot of spells, but you can adjust them to fit the situation. You're more versatile with them."

Let's compare then. Big nasty demon. Our brave sorcerer throws a, let's say his spell of choice is Cone of Cold. He figures the demon will have a high con, so he throws heighten on it. Demon rolls at disadvantage, but with a +8 Con save, is still likely to make it. And turns out he has a amulet of cold protection.

The Wizard, also throws Cone of Cold, changes it to target dexterity (big tough demon is slow, only a +3 save), makes it a lightning spell, and burns a 3rd level slot to increase the DC even more. Or a 1st level slot to give it +2d10 damage.

Who is the master of magic, capable of altering spells to fit any situation?

Oh, but the poor wizard still needs more to truly show he's the best a magic for all time and beyond, so let's let him cast any #$%@%^*&# spell he wants once per day in addition to all that, and give him an out to switch spells mid-day, because he wasn't good enough with rituals and a massive list of prepared spells and spells known.

Oh, and lest we forget. Arcane Recovery. Those slots you burnt to use your abilities, just get them back, maybe not all of them, but more than enough. Sorcerer wants their points back? Too bad, that stuff is limited because it's so amazingly powerful to play second fiddle.


I can't even look and see if these abilities just need a little tuning or are absolutely bonkers, because all I can see is the type of abilities the sorcerer should have had, being given to the wizard.

Guess if you always wanted to play a sorcerer, but found it too limiting, just play a Lore Wizard and be a better sorcerer.

/ End Rant



On the Other Hand, I really like some of the stuff for Warlock. In fact, I really really want to play a Hexblade Pact of the Blade now.

Hexblade makes sense thematically in a few ways. But I admit, I love twisting Warlock patrons into new and interesting things.

1) These weapons feed on souls, you don't find a powerful one, you find one that has been starved. It joins you, granting you what little of it's power is left, so that you may feed it souls, restore it. And who knows what happens after you do that.
2) A bound weapon, a weapon that was sealed and can not act as it wants, but it found you or you found it, and you made a deal. You're seeking to free it, or perhaps just using it for your own ends. It isn't in your possession, but it is connected to you through your bond.
3) What to reiterate the awesome idea of a giant machine or flying castle as weapon. You are simply it's Scion to the world, serving it.


I ignored the spell list, generally isn't worth it with Warlocks.

Hex Warrior is really great, but you still need Dex and Con anyways. I can see why some people don't like it, but this is the Warlocks Melee class, so I'm cool with allowing this for now, though multi-classing is always to be watched out for.

The Curse is pretty powerful, but 1 creature, 1 fight and it is fascinating that it increase damage based on Proficiency. That gives is a much more limited curve, but also stacks it with everything.

Interesting Question: Hex and curse a target, hit them with longsword 1d8+1d6+cha+prof or 1d8+cha+prof+1d6+prof? I'm not sure how to interpret "damage rolls" when a single attack deals damage from multiple effects.


I don't like the name for Shadow Hound. This ability only does two things, neither of which require this to be a dog. You attach this to any creature within 60 ft. 1) They don't benefit from cover. 2) You always know where they are, as long as they stay on the plane. For a melee focused character, #1 is of limited use. #2 is golden for exploration and social things. Makes Hexblades great "assassin" style characters, get in close once, then follow them until the time is right. Bounty Hunter, Private Eye, woodsman, smuggler.

Oh wow, how useful is this for following the guard's rotation. No need to guess when they are coming back, you just know.

So, change the name, the name doesn't fit well, and you can attach your shadow as a GPS tracking device to anybody you want.


These next two might be too powerful. Making one enemy have a 50% miss chance is brutal. I like the mechanical implementation, but it is a really powerful ability, especially since Curse gets no save. Then, curse all day every day against everyone. I like it, but man does it make this subclass incredibly powerful, I think. It does have sysnergy issues with Hex though, you want bonus actions to move hex and bonus actions to move the curse, but it gives you something for the second bonus and can let you layer enemies, which players always enjoy.


I'm not sure what I think about the Raven Queen. Great utility and exploration, but so many passive abilities. I could see an amazing character built with this, but I don't know if I would personally enjoy it. It is weird to have it with the pact of the Chain, but if someone insisted I might allow the abilities to stack.

Important things to remember: you can see what it sees and hear what it hears, no mention of being deaf and blind in your own body while doing so, which is a massive improvement. It doesn't sleep, and can wake you up as a bonus action. It doesn't have special senses, but a constant sentinel pair of eyes is worth it.


The invocations

Some of them I agree, could be expanded into more than one patron. But others I really like.

The Blade invocations, 2d8 per level is a big burst. But, let's remember Warlocks only have 2 spell slots until 10th level, and never more than 4. Your paladin may do less damage per smite, but they get a lot more of them, and can use any weapon they want. This is essentially a big spell for the Warlock.

Kiss of Mephistophles is bonkers good. Loving it. Eldritch Exploding sphere. Repelling blast pushes a target hit with Eldritch Blast. Then you explode them, lets you manuever the spell a little more. Repelling Blast is optional too, you don't have to activate it.

Green Lords Gift is amazing, especially if you decided to try an Archfey Blade pact. But it works for spending hit dice, drinking potions, anything.

Seeker's Speech is really cool and interesting, become a polyglot without the spells.

Tomb of Levistus is potentially incredibly powerful A max of 200 hp for one turn for enemies to try and chew through. You keep your AC, any spells that were making you harder t hit. This is an immensely powerful and useful "oh crap" reaction



Yeah, I think the Warlock is looking a lot better than it used to. Just for fun, let me throw together a quick rough Hexblade Blade.

I'm a sucker for swords, so Longsword or Rapier and shield. Let's assume 18 Cha. Thirsting Blade, Life Drinker, Relentless Hex, Fiendish Vigor perhaps, everything else goes into deciding what fun things you like doing, stealth and disguise perhaps. Let's say we just hit level 12.

AC probably 19 (half-plate, +2 dex, shield)

Two attacks for a base of +8, dealing 1d8+4 (cha from Hex Warrior)+4 (cha from Life Drinker)

Curse brings you to 1d8+8+4(proficiency) per hit and improved critting, plus that enemy has 50% miss

Hex adds at least 2d6. You can teleport next to the enemy. And if you decided to go with Burning Hex, you can bonus action for 1d6+8 (4 from the fire, activates Hex, which is a damage roll and activates curse)

Sure, there are more powerful builds, but that sounds like a lot of fun to me.
 

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Mad_Jack

Legend
As for playing a Hexblade patron with some other pact? I'd do that. Well, I might. I'll play odd stuff just because I can & what I come up with varies with my inspiration at the time I need a new character. So it's nice to have these odd combos as possibilities.

With choice of invocations and spells, background skills and multiclassing, you could cover a lot of flavor territory.

It'd be pretty good for trying to translate something like an Elder Scrolls or other video game character that doesn't quite fit the traditional D&D classes, or cobbling together a 5th-wheel utility character. It's not terrible if you felt the need for bolting on a decent chunk of bladelock onto a warlock that's primarily going to be one of the other types. And it's a real corner case, but you'd get a bit more utility out of your investment if for some reason you're already multiclassing into warlock from something that doesn't get the armor/shield/weapon profs.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Well, some balance work is certainly needed, I think; the main question mark is the damage type changing, that doesn't have much cost, but can have huge effects.

Sent from my BLU LIFE XL using EN World mobile app

I think in many cases though, it will have no effect. Many creatures won't feel the difference between getting hit by a coldball instead of a fireball. Hardly any creatures have vulnerability and if a wizard has a chance to bypass immunity then I think that's awesome.
 

1 per long rest to change stat for save, not "consistently"

Short rest, not long rest.

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf said:
When you cast a spell with a spell slot and the
spell requires a saving throw, you can change the
saving throw from one ability score to another of
your choice. Once you change a saving throw in
this way, you can’t do so again until you finish a
short or long rest
.

BTW, I just noticed that Lore Master + Magic Missile is obscenely broken due to the way "simultaneous" damage works. Doing d4+1+2d10 damage per missile is better than the damage boost an Evoker gets. 101 points of auto-hit Force damage for a Magic Missile V plus a first-level slot? Yes, please. I don't think that was intended.

An additional 1st-level spell slot can increasethe spell’s raw force. If you roll damage for the
spell when you cast it, increase the damage
against every target by 2d10 force damage. If the
spell can deal damage on more than one turn, it
deals this extra force damage only on the turn
you cast the spell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I think in many cases though, it will have no effect. Many creatures won't feel the difference between getting hit by a coldball instead of a fireball. Hardly any creatures have vulnerability and if a wizard has a chance to bypass immunity then I think that's awesome.

Then why doesn't the SORCERER that already has problems filling out their elemental niche have this for free or at some cost? Why has it been wrong for three years to give sorcerers something like this but it is ok to instantly give it the the insanely more versatile wizard? Specially at no cost?
 

ambroseji

Explorer
As for Wizard (CLASS)… I'm so glad they finally figured out a Generalist Wizard that doesn't (A) step on the toes of the Sorcerer...

Um what? Spell Secrets, Alchemical Casting, and Master of Magic completelyoutshine the sorcerer in on-the-fly spell adaptation. These are features that shouldbe completely in the sorcerer's wheelhouse and, as far as I am concerned,should be core metamagic options for them. Wizards are supposed to be the collected,prepared spellcasters, not the adaptable ones.

I'm going to lay it on thick now, but: the existance of theseabilites on wizard relegates sorcerers to being low spell count wizards withgood diplomacy… and sometimes wings
 

ambroseji

Explorer
Re: Lore Master Wizard

I am not seeing it OP nor stepping on sorcerers toes. Wizards have an opportunity cost "problem" (I use that word loosely). In many ways, particularly with 5E, the wizard spell list is all bout the "wierd" utility spells. As a wizard I have to prepare these wierd, corner case utility spells, AND damage spells for many (if not all) potential targets. With this archetype, the wizard can pick a few key damage spells to use as needed, and actually prepare MORE of the weird utility spells.

The metamagic-like feature is a pretty steep cost to a wizards mojo. Sorcerers get them as a bonus, this wizard has to burn more slots. Burn them if you must, but all the time? 15min workday anyone?

I think this is one of those builds you have to play to really feel its weakness/strength. If 5E has taught me anything, its that not everything is as it seems on paper. YMMV
Except that wizards have the choice to prepare the utility spells. They do not have to. Many of those are spells that can be cast from the spellbook without preparation. Sorcerers have no choice, day to day.

Furthermore, Metamagic is almost a direct equivalent to Arcane Recovery, and Spell Points therefore not just a 'bonus' for sorcs. Metamagic = spell slots for sorcerers. When they heighten a spell, it costs them a 2nd level spell. Burning slots for a wizard is almost identical, resource wise, as a sorcerer using sorcery points. Both represent extra spells/day.

Let's not forget that Spell Secrets costs a wizard nothing except for less versatility on next time they cast that same spell.

At the end (or start) of the day, the wizard is still ahead because of the ability to choose what spells to prepare. You just wanna blast? Prepare blasts.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I'm trying to understand your argument, but... it just doesn't make sense

Re: Lore Master Wizard

I am not seeing it OP nor stepping on sorcerers toes. Wizards have an opportunity cost "problem" (I use that word loosely). In many ways, particularly with 5E, the wizard spell list is all bout the "wierd" utility spells. As a wizard I have to prepare these wierd, corner case utility spells, AND damage spells for many (if not all) potential targets. With this archetype, the wizard can pick a few key damage spells to use as needed, and actually prepare MORE of the weird utility spells.

So, your argument here is, Wizards are expected to have solutions to problems. They cast magic as their schtick and because of that they are expected to have a wide variety of corner case utility spells and damage spells. Because, as the magic guy, your expected to have the solution to the problem you face. That's why your spell list is so long and you now so many spells after all.

And the sorcerer is the magic guy who doesn't need to cover a wide variety of enemies or have niche utility spells to deal with strange problems because... their the magic guy and.... well they aren't wizards, so obviously they don't need all that stuff?

If you think the handful of your minimum 44 spells known and 25 spells prepared you save with this archetype are so useful. How much more useful do you think it would be for the guy with 15 spells period?

Are we seriously just saying wizards are expected to be better, so they need to be given the tools to be even more so?


The metamagic-like feature is a pretty steep cost to a wizards mojo. Sorcerers get them as a bonus, this wizard has to burn more slots. Burn them if you must, but all the time? 15min workday anyone?

Sorcerers get metamagic as a bonus? I'm sorry, but... have you looked at the base class for the sorcerer in a while? They literally only get Spellcasting and the Metamagic system. That's their entire identity. Sure, the occasional sub-class adds... well mostly more ways to use sorcery points AKA Metamagic.

Now then, let's look at some raw numbers.

Lore Wizard gets Alchemical Casting at 6th level, and at that point has essentially 5 metamagic options.

They have a free, at-will elemental substitution
They have a 1/day alteration of the saving throw
They can burn 1st level slots for +2d10 force damage
They can burn 2nd level slots to cast things with a range of 1 mile
They can burn a 3rd level slot to increase their DC by 2, for every target effected

Oh, and with Arcane recovery, 3 of those spell slot levels can be retrieved, just need a short rest.

And the Sorcerer?

They have 2 metamagics. At 20th level they'll have 4, still one less than your wizard.

-Want to do more damage, 1 point and you can reroll some dice and hope you roll higher.
-Make things harder to save 3 points and you can give one creature disadvantage. Want to do that to more than one target? Too bad, impossible.
-Need more range, single point to double range, but unfortuantely, you took empower and heighten up above and can't use this one.

*Want more points? Burn Spells, 1 pt per level (which makes your 3rd level spell equal to my 3 points for heighten)

*Want more Spell slots? Well, that will cost you, on average of 2 points more that the spells level. So that 3rd level slot you get back with a short rest, costs me 5 of my 6 sorcery points.... which means I only have a single point to work with, I'm losing resources, and you are gaining them back.


Of course you aren't going to burn them all the time, you're going to wait until the right moment, after all, your still a wizard, your identity isn't tied up in all this. You could cast spells as normal and still be a wizard. But when you do decide that investment is worth it, well, you do it better than the guy who sacrificed everything else you have.
 

Then why doesn't the SORCERER that already has problems filling out their elemental niche have this for free or at some cost? Why has it been wrong for three years to give sorcerers something like this but it is ok to instantly give it the the insanely more versatile wizard? Specially at no cost?

Well, they actually haven't given it to them yet, as this is still playtest material. Since you feel so strongly on it, it's obviously something that you should bring up in the follow-up survey...
 

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