Useing Dexterity to hit --> everytime.

[XeviatTranion]

I don't think comparing strength to weapon weights works, since determining weapon weights is more about flavor than balance by any means in my opinion. There's no hard fast rule that says a great sword can't weight 1 pound.

It should just be strength required for light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. Mithril could reduce the strength requirement for a weapon, but not the actual wieldability.

That, and I think strength requirements shouldn't be usage requirements. Like mighty bows, I think having a strength lower than the requirement would reduce your to hit by one point per point lower. If two-handed weapons for medium creatures required a 15 strength, then having a 14 would reduce your to hit by 1.

This means that they'd do the same amount of base damage, meaning a weak person may want to pick up a big hammer to smash something, but it's harder to hit a target because the swing is slower.

I'm liking this more and more.

 

[Nyaricus]

I don't think comparing strength to weapon weights works, since determining weapon weights is more about flavor than balance by any means in my opinion. There's no hard fast rule that says a great sword can't weight 1 pound.

It should just be strength required for light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. Mithril could reduce the strength requirement for a weapon, but not the actual wieldability.

That, and I think strength requirements shouldn't be usage requirements. Like mighty bows, I think having a strength lower than the requirement would reduce your to hit by one point per point lower. If two-handed weapons for medium creatures required a 15 strength, then having a 14 would reduce your to hit by 1.

This means that they'd do the same amount of base damage, meaning a weak person may want to pick up a big hammer to smash something, but it's harder to hit a target because the swing is slower.

I'm liking this more and more.

I am not quite getting your reasoning here man. It definitively takes a minimun amount of Str to weild a weapon, if you are too weak, you take a penalty. See my last post and taek a deep look at the mechanics. They are there, but they are based off of weight.

For Bows, From Stone to Steel covers that too, in relation to strength. In real life, a bow is rated by its pull, and that plus the users strength determines how far an arrow will fly. The following is the alternative system.

Minus 20 from base range of bow. This is the pull of the bow. Then, multiply your characters Strength score by 10 to get the true range increment of the bow. The maximum range of a bow is 2x its pull (so base range per the PHB minus 20, times that number by 2). If it's a might bow, you add your Str score to the bow, the maximum is what your str would be at 2x it's pull. A composite bow increases the base pull by 10, and this is doubled for maximum range.

ex:
Thus a long bow (100-20) = 80 + [character with 16 Str] (10x3) 30 = 110 range. Max range is 160. If this is a Mighty bow, the maximum Str that can be added is (160 max range divided by 2 = 80 divided by 10 = 8) +8. If this were a mighty bow, Base range would be +10 for 90 feet, and maximum would be 180 feet.

What do you guys think of this??

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

My two cents:

Fighters get hosed enough as it is without needing to depend on multiple ability scores even more than they do already.

 

[Nifft]

Sure, and Dex is used to dodge, right? Which "hit points" are supposed to model (in part), right?

Thus, you should use Dex for AC, HP, attack, and most skills.

-- N

PS: Check out my new class which has Dex-based spellcasting!

 

[XeviatTranion]

Nyaricus, my reasoning is that there is no rule governing how much weapons should weigh. Yes, two-handed weapons are generally heavier than one-handed weapons, and much heavier than light weapons. I just don't think it should be based on weight, it should be based on the weapon's size. Everything in 3rd edition is related to size categories, not weight. A dwarf weighs more than an elf, but that never comes into play except in the off chance that a DM designs a trap requiring a certain amount of weight to trigger.

And yes, there are bows that have exceptional pull ... they're called Composite Bows. One could easily give a base pull to the standard longbow, and a lower one to a short bow, but I don't think that's necessary because characters already take a damage penalty with bows if they have a negative strength modifier.

I don't see why you think that it wouldn't be best to base the strength requirement for weapons on their size? It's quite simple in my opinion; the problem is that every character should be able to use light weapons. Possibly the strength requirements would be related to the proficiency as well, because it doesn't take as much strength to weild a quarterstaff as it does to wield a great sword.

But if you base it off of weight, you're going to have to take that into consideration when you determine if a weapon is balanced against others. Right now we have a really simple method of determining weapon balance, but adding minimum strength scores would require alterations beyond just assigning them.

 

[Nellisir]

Dex is already overpowered in core D&D. It benefits AC, Reflex, a slew of desireable skills, and if you take Weapon Finesse, the kewl light weapons.

Making Dex the default stat for attack rolls in general would only begin to balance if weapon damages were decreased by one step of the die (ie, as if the weapon were one size smaller) for anyone not using Strength to hit.

And forget about 4 lb weapons -- I use a 22 oz framing hammer in my job, that's bigger than most guys use,and you absolutely need strength to swing it for more than a minute. You'd also be hard pressed to make a good argument for Dexterity being more important than Strength with a hammer or pick.

 

[Nyaricus]

Nyaricus, my reasoning is that there is no rule governing how much weapons should weigh.

Dude, there's only about 3000 or even more years of weapon smithing to back this up . . . By why trying to split hairs here? I guess that for my intentions, that should do well enough for game balance issues. My HR's make "overpowered" ability scores much less of an issue . . . and since we are RPing more than fighting, many of the points on how Dex os overowered are not as relevant. Soon we will be getting into many more fights - thus the pendulum will swing the other way. It is all about give and take.

I can see that there's definitly opposing sides here that are either "yeah that makes sense" or "no, it doesn't" . . . i don't know what to say, really. I definitly think that fighters wouldn't (EDIT) get "hosed" by this ruling, since Dex should still be pretty important as is for Fighters - but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ruvion]

My house rule is to use dexterity for all weapons, but each weapon has a accuracy penalty offset by a character's strength modifier.

In other words, bigger weapons require more strength to use, so if you're underpowered it's harder to hit.

Basically, the penalty is maximum base damage divided by two minus one. A 1d10 weapon will have a -4 penalty (10/2 - 1). Extra strength won't give you a bonus past zero.

Ooooh, I like this accuracy penalty idea...although I am in the camp of 'Dex to hit makes the stat overpowered'. Maybe allowing finesse weapons (light weapons or lightly designed such as rapier) to be auto finessed (ie Dex to hit) without the need to spend a feat? But if I have the time and the inclination I'll integrate that accuracy penalty into the weapon for all weighty and bulky weapons...so you can still use Strength to hit but accuracy penalty will take its toll. Hhmmm, maybe spilting the accuracy penalty into two types of penalty might make it more interesting: strain penalty (offset by Strength bonus) and accuracy penalty (offset by Dexterity bonus). These type of penalty will make sure the best fighter would not just be strong but agile too.

 

[Ruvion]

Oh and do check out Iron Heroes it has interesting ideas regarding what stats gets to be used to hit...

For example with the right choice, you can build a beefy but weak guy (that is high Con and low Str) that uses his Con to hit!