D&D 5E Using multiple initiative systems in the same game?

[LordEntrails]

Why not just roll party initiatives at the end of a combat so you have it set and ready for the next time you need it? You can also pre-roll inits for the encounters when you prep them. Or use an initiative app to generate them on demand.

 

[Quickleaf]

Why not just roll party initiatives at the end of a combat so you have it set and ready for the next time you need it? You can also pre-roll inits for the encounters when you prep them. Or use an initiative app to generate them on demand.

Yeah, @robus was mentioning that "roll at the end of combat" worked well at their table. I can see plusses and minuses. One drawback to "roll at the end of combat" is losing the power of "Roll Initiative" to focus the players & build tension before a significant conflict; "Roll for Initiative" is also a great cue for when the players get to do their "football huddle."

So, I have used pre-rolled monster initiative a bunch. There was a slight reduction in the "speed bump" effect, but it didn't appreciably change things. Still had to resolve player rolls and get situated. But I haven't tried have players pre-roll their initiatives.

To answer your question about "why not use party initiative", my goal is (a) speeding up combat at the initiative phase, and (b) selectively smoothing out "speed bumps" in the transition into combat. Party initiative works. However, it's not the fastest choice. Side initiative, for example, plays faster.

The idea I'm playing with is getting those dials synched up, so that a quick/less important scene is paired with a fast-resolving initiative system, whereas a higher stakes/more climactic scene is paired with an initiative system that has more granularity.

 

[robus]

There’s nothing stopping you from asking for a fresh initiative at the start of an important combat, you could call it passive initiative vs dynamic initiative .

Edit: For me the smoothness of the transition was worth it and the “oh naughty word” feeling from the players when things kicked off was awesome, it kept everyone on their toes.

 

[Quickleaf]

Edit: For me the smoothness of the transition was worth it and the “oh naughty word” feeling from the players when things kicked off was awesome, it kept everyone on their toes.

Nice. What about your roll after combat approach evoked that "oh naughty word" moment for them?

 

[robus]

Nice. What about your roll after combat approach evoked that "oh naughty word" moment for them?

I meant that the combat started organically without there being any combat swoosh, so things got real very quickly.

 

[Enrahim2]

I like the idea of dynamic initiative system depending on the situation. I have played with the thought quite a bit myself. The main deterrent I have found is that rulings with regard to which system to use might be of disproponate importance to players with characters that have taken features that changes initiative. For instance if a player has chosen a feat that allow them to use wisdom instead of dex when rolling initiative, the value of that choice is highly diminished if this choice only matters in climatic fights. Moreover that player might be prone to argue that fights should be considered climatic, or ask for more climatic fights.

By having a consistent initiative system up front that ignore or significantly lessens the value of initiative modifying features up front, the players can chose to avoid them, or have made an informed chase if taking them anyway, rather than feeling cheated if it turns out it never come into play.

 

[Voadam]

Another easy option if you are just wanting speed is the everybody takes 10 for initiative. Everybody knows the initiative order and you go straight into it and transition one to the next with no decision or roll or listing speed bumps, and those with initiative features (high dex in 5e) still go first. The downside would be no variety.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I use @toucanbuzz's initiative system with 1 or 2 tweaks (not listed in the attachment), which sees one rolling every round but I do like the variants you posted for those smaller combat scenes. Nice idea, think I will incorporate.

 

[Quickleaf]

I use @toucanbuzz's initiative system with 1 or 2 tweaks (not listed in the attachment), which sees one rolling every round but I do like the variants you posted for those smaller combat scenes. Nice idea, think I will incorporate.

How do you handle players changing their minds (e.g. due to the situation changing by the time their turn gets resolved) in a "Declare" system like this?

 

[toucanbuzz]

How do you handle players changing their minds (e.g. due to the situation changing by the time their turn gets resolved) in a "Declare" system like this?

They choose how to carry out the Action, but they can't change it in a declare system. Not saying my numbers are perfect, but it speeds up the game a ton, and it's really rare a player can't do anything from actual play because players are surveying the battlefield and anticipating what could happen when they make a decision.

At the moment, after 2 years of declaration initiative, we're trying the original way of doing initiative. Pros and cons. We've already got one player who freezes up nearly every fight with indecision, and it's noticeable. Another gamer has started to pull out his phone during other people's turns (I don't think he realizes he's doing it, checking game books). This wasn't happening during a declare system. Actions were figured out simultaneously and then the combat rounds flowed quickly. However, the predictability of combat turns seems more reassuring to strategic decisions.