Vatic Gaze (from PHB II)

[Nathan]

Hey all,

does any one of you know how the Vatic Gaze feat (from the PHB II) works? First of all, it gives a character Detect Magic at will. Then it says that using a Swift action, one can determine an oppenent's spellcasting ability. By succeeding on a Sense Motive check (DC 5+target's caster level), one "learns the highest-level spells the target is capable of casting".

What does this mean? Does the feat give knowledge about the highest spell LEVELS or the highest SPELLS themselves (as I'd read it)? Given the latter, isn't the feat a bit overpowered then (the prerequisite being arcane caster level 9th)?

Being interested in hearing your comments about this,

Nathan

 

[Victim]

It's basically like Arcane Sight, except it costs a feat rather some XP.

 

[Corsair]

Capable of casting. Not what is in his spell book. Not what he has prepared. Not how many free slots, or spells known, or whathave you.

It just lets you establish what level spells are the highest the person can cast.

 

[Nathan]

Capable of casting. Not what is in his spell book. Not what he has prepared. Not how many free slots, or spells known, or whathave you.

It just lets you establish what level spells are the highest the person can cast.

I understand what you mean but doesn't this contradict the wording, talking about SPELLS and not spell LEVELS?

 

[Felix]

Levels, I believe.

If you vatic gaze a 3rd level wizard who has all of his slots available, you can tell that he can cast 2nd level spells. You can't tell that he has Invisibility memorized.

What you can't tell the difference between is that 3rd level wizard and a 17th level wizard who only has one 2nd level spell available to him. Not that any 17th level wizard would ever allow that to happen...


At least, that's how I remember it; IDHMBIFOM.

 

[Corsair]

I understand what you mean but doesn't this contradict the wording, talking about SPELLS and not spell LEVELS?

No. You're just choosing to add emphasis on the word spells. There is not enough information in the sentence to conclude that it means anything else. Otherwise it would have to say something like "spells known" or "spells prepared". To be completely honest, I'm not sure how it could be read any other way in its current state. If I were DMing for you and you wanted it to work that way, you'd have to convince me.

What exactly in that sentence implies that you gain knowledge of which specific spells he has prepared and/or known (for spontaneous casters)?

 

[Nathan]

No. You're just choosing to add emphasis on the word spells. There is not enough information in the sentence to conclude that it means anything else. Otherwise it would have to say something like "spells known" or "spells prepared". To be completely honest, I'm not sure how it could be read any other way in its current state. If I were DMing for you and you wanted it to work that way, you'd have to convince me.

What exactly in that sentence implies that you gain knowledge of which specific spells he has prepared and/or known (for spontaneous casters)?

In case only the levels are disclosed, why doesn't the feat then say "you learn the levels of the highest-level spells the opponent is capable of casting"?

By the way, is the concept of a spell level really an in-game or rather a meta-game concept, i.e. do the characters know of the concept of spell levels or don't they (like they don't know of the concept of hitpoints)? In the latter case, a feat giving out this information doesn't sound well thought of (compare with the spell Detect Magic that gives as information something that is perceivable by the characters, i.e. faint or moderate).

 

[darth xanthor]

Hey all,

does any one of you know how the Vatic Gaze feat (from the PHB II) works? First of all, it gives a character Detect Magic at will. Then it says that using a Swift action, one can determine an oppenent's spellcasting ability. By succeeding on a Sense Motive check (DC 5+target's caster level), one "learns the highest-level spells the target is capable of casting".

What does this mean? Does the feat give knowledge about the highest spell LEVELS or the highest SPELLS themselves (as I'd read it)? Given the latter, isn't the feat a bit overpowered then (the prerequisite being arcane caster level 9th)?

Being interested in hearing your comments about this,

Nathan

If you are talking about how the wizard is able to do this in game wise, I would think that the feat is based around being able to see, and read, the residual waves that migic gives off.....or something to that jazz

 

[RangerWickett]

What is the full text of the feat, so we can discuss it more clearly?

 

[Nathan]

What is the full text of the feat, so we can discuss it more clearly?

Skipping flavour text:

Prerequisite: Arcane caster level 9th.

Benefit: You can use detect magic at will. Also, as a swift action, you can attempt to determine an opponent's spellcasting ability. You make a Sense Motive check (DC 5 + target's caster level). If this check succeeds, you learn the highest-level spells the target is capable of casting. This benefit grants you no insight into spell-like or supernatural abilities.