Cleon
Legend
Updating the Volcano Pig.
Yeah, I lean towards a Hippopotamus too. The Dipro's rodent-like incisors are a decent analog to a Hippo's tusks.
Volcano Pig
Updating the Volcano Pig.
Yeah, I lean towards a Hippopotamus too. The Dipro's rodent-like incisors are a decent analog to a Hippo's tusks.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Changes are good to my original idea - makes it a more fun monster. Is only now that I am DMing higher levels am I realising just how much hp inflation there is between 5e and 1/2e (which I am much more familiar with...). Anyway, gonna sleep now...
Cleon
Legend
Okay, I think we only have the Special Traits and Description left.
Let's do them in order.
The Charge is mechanically sound. It's basically a copy-and-paste of the Giant Boar's charge attack, except the DC 13 doesn't match the 14 its STR would give it. Hopefully that's already been corrected in the latest draft like the 14 (3d6 + 4) damage of the Tusk in the latest version Volcano Pig Enworld Draft.
That said, the Charge damage is a bit weak, dealing less damage than the Volcano Pig's normal Multiattack. Presumably it should do comparable or better damage than the 7d6 + 4 of a combined Tusk and Snort.
I would add some fire damage to the attack, preferable with the target igniting. The simplest approach would be slapping on the ignition section of a Fire Elemental's Fire Form ability, like so:
That's still less damage than its Multiattack, though it adds a knock-prone and automatic ignition. I'd rather it do the same or more damage with a charge, which is easiely achieved by increasing the fire damage, e.g.:
Option #2a does the same damage as the Volcano Pig's Multiattack (7d6+4) while option #2b does 4 points more damage on average.
Alternatively, the Tusk damage can be increased with the basic Fire Form ignition damage. A Giant Boar's charge adds the tusk's 2d6 base damage, so if we use the 3d6 base damage of the Volcano Pig's tusks we can create something like:
That's either 6d6+1d10+4 or 8d6+4 damage, or either 2 or 3½ points more average damage than the Multiattack (30½ or 32 vs 28½).
Increasing the fire damage further to a Volcanic Charge #3b with +3d6 tusks and 2d10 fire might be slightly too high for a Challenge 5 monster. That's 6d6+2d10+4 or 36 average damage.
Let's see, a CR 6 Young Brass Dragon averages 37 with its Multiattack (2d10+4d6+12) and a Young White Dragon averages 41½ (2d10+4d6+12 plus 1d8 cold).
CRs are more-or less linear in 5E, so a CR 5 monster could have about 5/6th of the above for 30.8⅓ and 34.58⅓ so I guess 36 average damage is marginally tolerable for a one-off attack.
I think I like the #2b and #3a better though.
The Charge is mechanically sound. It's basically a copy-and-paste of the Giant Boar's charge attack, except the DC 13 doesn't match the 14 its STR would give it. Hopefully that's already been corrected in the latest draft like the 14 (3d6 + 4) damage of the Tusk in the latest version Volcano Pig Enworld Draft.
That said, the Charge damage is a bit weak, dealing less damage than the Volcano Pig's normal Multiattack. Presumably it should do comparable or better damage than the 7d6 + 4 of a combined Tusk and Snort.
I would add some fire damage to the attack, preferable with the target igniting. The simplest approach would be slapping on the ignition section of a Fire Elemental's Fire Form ability, like so:
Volcanic Charge #1. If the pig moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a tusk attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 7 (2d6) slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. In addition, if the target is a creature or a flammable object, it takes 5 (1d10) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns.
That's still less damage than its Multiattack, though it adds a knock-prone and automatic ignition. I'd rather it do the same or more damage with a charge, which is easiely achieved by increasing the fire damage, e.g.:
Volcanic Charge #2a. If the pig moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a tusk attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 7 (2d6) slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. In addition, if the target is a creature or a flammable object, it takes 7 (2d6) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns.
Volcanic Charge #2b. If the pig moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a tusk attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 7 (2d6) slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. In addition, if the target is a creature or a flammable object, it takes 11 (2d10) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns.
Option #2a does the same damage as the Volcano Pig's Multiattack (7d6+4) while option #2b does 4 points more damage on average.
Alternatively, the Tusk damage can be increased with the basic Fire Form ignition damage. A Giant Boar's charge adds the tusk's 2d6 base damage, so if we use the 3d6 base damage of the Volcano Pig's tusks we can create something like:
Volcanic Charge #3. If the pig moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a tusk attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 10 (3d6) slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. In addition, if the target is a creature or a flammable object, it takes 5 (1d10) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns.
Volcanic Charge #3a. If the pig moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a tusk attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 10 (3d6) slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. In addition, if the target is a creature or a flammable object, it takes 7 (2d6) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns.
That's either 6d6+1d10+4 or 8d6+4 damage, or either 2 or 3½ points more average damage than the Multiattack (30½ or 32 vs 28½).
Increasing the fire damage further to a Volcanic Charge #3b with +3d6 tusks and 2d10 fire might be slightly too high for a Challenge 5 monster. That's 6d6+2d10+4 or 36 average damage.
Let's see, a CR 6 Young Brass Dragon averages 37 with its Multiattack (2d10+4d6+12) and a Young White Dragon averages 41½ (2d10+4d6+12 plus 1d8 cold).
CRs are more-or less linear in 5E, so a CR 5 monster could have about 5/6th of the above for 30.8⅓ and 34.58⅓ so I guess 36 average damage is marginally tolerable for a one-off attack.
I think I like the #2b and #3a better though.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Okay - have gone with 3a, initally a bit wary of having a different fire damage (someone can be more ignited than someone else?) but then yeah being trampled can explain this.
Cleon
Legend
Updating Volcano Pig.
Okay, let's do Relentless next:
Mechanically it's fine but I feel the damage threshold is too low.
A regular Boar has 11 hp & CR 1/4 and its Relentless caps at 7 damage.
A Giant Boar is 42 hp & CR 2 and its Relentless caps at 10 damage.
The Volcano Pig is 92 hp & CR 5 so is roughly 250% times as nasty as a Giant Boar, but 12 damage is only 2 points higher, which is less than the 3 points difference between a Boar and a Giant Boar. I'd rather it be at least 15 damage, or around the average output of its tusks, and would be willing to go higher (18 or 20?) if you'd prefer that.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
I had not thought of that. Okay, given is higher level critter and extraplanar and tough, let's make it 20
Cleon
Legend
The question is, how much of a chance of killing a wounded volcano pig in one blow do you want? Since Relentless leaves the pig with 1 hit point, the next hit will be bound to kill it.
Basically, the Relentless damage threshold should be scaled to the likely weapon damage of typical characters of the Volcano Pigs' Challenge rating.
A Giant Boar's 10 damage threshold means a nondescript fighter striking two-handed with a longsword for 1d10 damage could finish it off one blow in ten with a non-critical hit, but if they rolled a critical hit for 2d10 damage they'd have a 64% of doing enough to kill it. A decent warrior with, say, a greatsword and respectable strength bonus might do 2d6+3 damage meaning they'd have better than even chances of making a finishing blow on the first try.
Giving the volcano pig a threshold of 15 would mean a 2d6+3 damage greatsword wielder would just be able to kill it with a single non-critical hit, but would need to roll a 12 to do so, a 1 in 36 chance. A critical hit for 4d6+3 would have a reasonable chance of doing 15 or more damage.
Contrariwise, a threshold of 20 is hard to achieve with a single weapon attack. It's just possible to do so with a critical 2H longsword's 2d10 damage, but there's only a 1% chance, and even the 4d6+3 of the critical greatsword hit would have to roll well to hit that number. It requires an unusually powerful opponent, like a Hill Giant with its 3d8 + 5 damage greatclub, do have a good chance of inflicting such a degree of finishing damage, but normal humanoid fighters tend to have more attacks that do less damage per attack.
A special attack can easily do 20 or more damage - a 7th level rogue sneak-attacking with a sword does 1d8 + 4d6 + attribute which will often be enough, and the 3d10 necrotic damage of an inflict wounds will usually be enough to.
So do you want the Volcano Pig to require a special attack, critical hit, or an unusually powerful opponent to kill in a single blow or not?
If you wish there to be decent odds of cutting through its Relentless with a normal weapon hit I think the threshold should be somewhere in the 10-15 range. Maybe even the 12 it is in the current draft?
I'm not 100% sure what the typical weapon damage of a party gearing up against Challenge 5 opponents is, which makes it hard estimating what an appropriate threshold would be.
Cleon
Legend
Oh, and Hot Inside has a similar problem but in reverse - it requires a 15 damage blow to trigger, which is hard to roll on a typical melee attack. A guy wielding a longsword two-handed would need either a +5 or higher damage bonus or critical hit to cut through the pig's hide and cause a lava-splatter.
As written, the splatter effect will almost never happen until the pig is reduced to 30 hp or less and start gushing its incandescent blood all around the place.
As written, the splatter effect will almost never happen until the pig is reduced to 30 hp or less and start gushing its incandescent blood all around the place.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Ok. Good points. Been playing and players getting high damage
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Not uncommonly. So I think 20 only delays death by 1 hit anyway.
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