VoP and intangible benefits

[Rystil Arden]

I dont think that it matters one way or another what it might cost the one offering the service

I disagree--if it costs the service offerer GP or XP, they are basically just buying it for the VoP character by proxy. If a VoP druid finds a rare and beautiful flower, I'd probably let her keep it. But if the druid gets her fighter buddy to pay 5000 GP for the flower, I wouldn't allow this.

 

[Scion]

they are basically just buying it for the VoP character by proxy

Which is allowed by the rules through various means, one of which is through the act of 'begging'.

So, it is allowed. Hence I feel that your spirit of the rules arguement doesnt make any sense as it directly contradicts some of the rules text.

'you cant kill commoners'.. but the spirit is that you can kill them on tuesdays.. tuesdays dont count, everyone knows that....

 

[Tatsukun]

But in such a situation as the Wish Reward, wouldn't a proper VOP PC say "No, please, give the reward to someone more needy. I think there is a beggar near the docks who has had a curse put on him" or "No please, use that power (Gp/Exp) to help the poor." One wish spell can heal / cure / help a lot of people.

It’d be the same with the enchantment. "No, please, I have no need of such rewards, if you feel you must, please make some armor for Sir No-armor, the local Paladin".

I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't allow any such reward to go to the VOP PC if s/he had a way of deflecting it to more needy people.

Oh, in the case of the lordship, I wouldn't care, as long as the VOP PC promptly went about finding a worthy (Exalted) lord to replace him. Or maybe, if he went about using his power to help the people in every way he could. Turning the lord's manor into a hospital, having the army help build new roads, the like.

That's my 2 yen.

- Tatsu

 

[Rystil Arden]

But in such a situation as the Wish Reward, wouldn't a proper VOP PC say "No, please, give the reward to someone more needy. I think there is a beggar near the docks who has had a curse put on him" or "No please, use that power (Gp/Exp) to help the poor." One wish spell can heal / cure / help a lot of people.

Exactly--since the Wizard can't be reasonably expected to spend the XP for two Wishes. Whereas it would be fine to accept a quick Mage Armour from the Wizard before heading in to face the demons since that is a simple spell that the Wizard can cast again and again if someone else needs it.

 

[Scion]

I am afraid that just doesnt follow.

A vop character may very well give up his one day of meals to the needy and starve himself and even turn down any and all offers to give him food in favor of feeding some needy person, but that does not mean that accepting the food would negate his vow somehow.

Just because someone can turn something down, and likely will if there is a 'better use', does not mean that it is against the vow, it merely means that he is a good person in this case.

If he somehow gets a blessing of some sort he is still ok, it doesnt violate any part of the vow.

If he decides to pick up a magical item and uses it this is likely going to strip away his abilities.

it is a vow of 'poverty', not a vow of 'no one can ever help me in any way'.

 

[Rystil Arden]

it is a vow of 'poverty', not a vow of 'no one can ever help me in any way'.

I think if you read the posts of those who disagree with you, you would agree that you have built a strawman that no one here is saying. Regardless, it is clear that nothing anyone can say will change your mind, and I think all the rest of us have made our points and you made yours, so there is no reason to continue now, particularly with strawmen.

 

[Scion]

I think if you read the posts of those who disagree with you, you would agree that you have built a strawman that no one here is saying.

As that seems to be the basic arguement of yourself and the poster right above yours I would have to say that I disagree.

Just because the guy would turn down a benefit does not mean that the benefit would cause him to lose the vow, merely that he looks for the greater good in all things.

If you feel that it is a strawman then feel free to remake your arguement or his, until then however, the guy above you explicitly said, 'But in such a situation as the Wish Reward, wouldn't a proper VOP PC say "No, please, give the reward to someone more needy. I think there is a beggar near the docks who has had a curse put on him" or "No please, use that power (Gp/Exp) to help the poor." One wish spell can heal / cure / help a lot of people.' and you said that you agreed. If you dont like someone actually using that example against you then perhaps you would like to use a different example instead.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Please read all the examples given above again, and if you still think our argument is 'no one can ever help me in any way' and that you aren't creating your own extreme position that is misrepresentative, I really don't know what to say.

 

[Scion]

It was the arguement taken to its conclusion and is the arguement broken down to its basic form. Again, if you feel that your arguement is different then you may want to rework it a bit. As is, I have pointed out a few places where it is inconsistant both with the rules and the assumed 'spirit' behind the feat.

 

[Tatsukun]

Cool, I'm now officially "The guy above Rystil Arden" !

To clarify, I would make a VOP PC loose his abilities if he accepted a wish that would help only him if there were any other options. That's selfish, and not too Exalted if you ask me.

Small stuff that has immeadiate need, ok. But the wish smells like a reward to me, and like the Lone Ranger or Li Mu Bai would say "I cannot take any reward..."

-Tatsu