Vote for your favorite Paragon Path - Part 2.1: Fighter

[Nifft]

Why Warpriest? I don't get it. Warpriest is an excellent PP, but not for a Fighter. Warpriest’s Challenge gives you nothing that your fighter class features can't do. Maybe you mistook for a different PP?

Warpriest really is awesome for any Fighter with a high Str and Wis (not just Dwarves, but they do get the right bonus).

The Warpriest mark lasts forever, and gives you a free Opportunity attack -- and a Fighter's OA is truly a brutal thing. Basically, it more than doubles the stickiness of your regular mark, and it gives you one encounter-long mark that never wears off.

Cheers, -- N

 

[brehobit]

Warpriest really is awesome for any Fighter with a high Str and Wis (not just Dwarves, but they do get the right bonus).

The Warpriest mark lasts forever, and gives you a free Opportunity attack -- and a Fighter's OA is truly a brutal thing. Basically, it more than doubles the stickiness of your regular mark, and it gives you one encounter-long mark that never wears off.

Cheers, -- N

I do like it, but the daily pretty much sucks assuming you the power only triggers on the first hit (otherwise it's the best power in the game). You'd need one heck of a wisdom to make it work plus a good holy symbol. The special mark requires that you hit with an at-will which sometimes doesn't happen until late in the encounter.

 

[Nifft]

I do like it, but the daily pretty much sucks assuming you the power only triggers on the first hit (otherwise it's the best power in the game). You'd need one heck of a wisdom to make it work plus a good holy symbol. The special mark requires that you hit with an at-will which sometimes doesn't happen until late in the encounter.

Yes, you do need a good Wisdom.

Regarding that bold bit: you're assuming some very specific behavior, which is often sub-optimal.

However, even if you assert that you will always follow that behavior, I have three words for you: Heavy. Blade. Opportunity. Now you can use At-Wills for your OAs.

Regarding weapon + holy symbol, I have a two-word answer: Holy Avenger.

Cheers, -- N

 

[brehobit]

Yes, you do need a good Wisdom.

Regarding that bold bit: you're assuming some very specific behavior, which is often sub-optimal.

However, even if you assert that you will always follow that behavior, I have three words for you: Heavy. Blade. Opportunity. Now you can use At-Wills for your OAs.

Regarding weapon + holy symbol, I have a two-word answer: Holy Avenger.

Cheers, -- N

Yeah, I foresee having HBO (though the 15 Dex slows down the high Wis) And we consider a basic attack to be an at-will attack, so no biggy there in any case. But our DM doesn't have the baddies provoke very often, so it seems it will be a bit tricky to get this going. My fighter tends to use his encounter powers (which are almost all area attack powers) early though one could see doing otherwise.

As far as Wisdom, at level 21 I expect to have Wis 19 and Str 26. That's -4 to the attack roll when using Wis even if the implement bonus is as good as the weapon (if you consider NAD rather than AC equal to losing the weapon prof. bonus). Given the desire for a reasonable Dex (HBO and the higher crit at level 21) and to have plate the only way I could see to get a better Wisdom is to take a STR hit or play a Str/Wis or Str/Con race (I'm playing a Human).

Also Holy Avengers rock, and you probably can get one soon after you hit 20th. That's a good point.

 

[mkill]

The Warpriest mark lasts forever, and gives you a free Opportunity attack -- and a Fighter's OA is truly a brutal thing. Basically, it more than doubles the stickiness of your regular mark, and it gives you one encounter-long mark that never wears off.

It's a second type of mark that is not compatible to your standard fighter marks. Which means it's either - or.

Without Warpriest, the fighter still gets a mark that triggers under the same conditions. Granted, you only get a basic attack instead of an opportunity attack, but unless you have feats that explicitely boost opportunity attacks instead of standard basic attacks, there is no difference. With MP2, there are enough ways to make a basic attack powerful, too.

The main downside I see to Warpriest is extra bookkeeping: you need yet another individual marker on the battlemat to differ your Warpriest mark from your standard Warpriest mark. And you need to differ very carefully between standard opportunity attacks, opportunity attacks granted by your Warpriest mark, your combat challenge class feature, and immediate interrupts granted by Combat Challenge.
Plus, there is the aforementioned implement hassle.

I'd rather take a straightforward +Wis to all damage including basic attacks from Pit Fighter, thank you very much.

 

[renau1g]

I accidentally clicked on Iron Vanguard, but I meant Dreadnaught as I love being a giant hp monster that can throw off effects.

 

[blargney the second]

I'm loving my dreadnought so far, and we've only just hit level 12. The double-hit encounter attack power is crazy good, as is the resist 10 with an action point.

I also enjoy getting rid of status effects by saying "DO NOT WANT."

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah, I foresee having HBO (though the 15 Dex slows down the high Wis) And we consider a basic attack to be an at-will attack, so no biggy there in any case. But our DM doesn't have the baddies provoke very often, so it seems it will be a bit tricky to get this going. My fighter tends to use his encounter powers (which are almost all area attack powers) early though one could see doing otherwise.

As far as Wisdom, at level 21 I expect to have Wis 19 and Str 26. That's -4 to the attack roll when using Wis even if the implement bonus is as good as the weapon (if you consider NAD rather than AC equal to losing the weapon prof. bonus). Given the desire for a reasonable Dex (HBO and the higher crit at level 21) and to have plate the only way I could see to get a better Wisdom is to take a STR hit or play a Str/Wis or Str/Con race (I'm playing a Human).

Also Holy Avengers rock, and you probably can get one soon after you hit 20th. That's a good point.

And i assume, a dwarven fighter who makes use of this path have actually higher (at least as high) wis than strength: 16 strength, 18 wisdom, 14 con, 12 dex or something like that. (16/16/16 is also possible) A dwarf has a lot of feats to make its wisdom count. (devoted challenge e.g.)
not that you are a guardian type fighter, not a battle rager.

Of course a fighter with 20 strength and 14 wisdom will not make good use of that PP. But that kind of fighter is not the candidate for a warpriest...

something like that (still potential for optimization)

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Kildrak, level 11
Dwarf, Fighter, Warpriest
Build: Guardian Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Hammer)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Occupation - Military (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 30 Fort: 24 Reflex: 21 Will: 23
HP: 91 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +13, Heal +15, Athletics +12, Religion +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +12, History +5, Insight +10, Intimidate +4, Nature +10, Perception +10, Stealth +2, Streetwise +4, Thievery +2

FEATS
Level 1: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level 2: Devoted Challenge
Level 4: Initiate of the Faith
Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
Level 8: Versatile Expertise
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Plate)

POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Brash Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Cleave
Fighter encounter 1: Shield Bash (retrained to Insightful Strike at Level 5)
Fighter daily 1: Villain's Menace
Fighter utility 2: Shielded Sides
Fighter encounter 3: Shield Edge Block
Fighter daily 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter utility 6: Settling the Score
Fighter encounter 7: Come and Get It
Fighter daily 9: Stop Thrust (retrained to Flame Strike at Adept Power)
Fighter utility 10: Mighty Surge

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Battering Craghammer +3, Onatar's Forge +2, Cloak of Resistance +3, Dwarven Layered Plate Armor +2, Guardian Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Zinovia]

Continuing aside about Warpriest

Given that Strength clerics are the ones most likely to want this paragon path (and high Wis fighters), I felt that there were some weirdnesses in its design. This is a PH1 paragon path, and hence is more subject to mistakes in initial design than those appearing in later books.

The level 11 encounter power Battle Cry uses the Weapon keyword, and does [W]-based damage. I house-ruled it to hit on strength rather than wisdom. I think this is a case where the designers forgot that the *other* half of the cleric class hits on strength, not wisdom, or else they didn't realize how limiting it can be to have a to-hit stat that is several points lower than your main to-hit (ie Star-pact warlocks are evidence of this). The level 20 daily power I left alone, since it's implement-based and does area radiant damage, and hence is more "castery". Thus there is incentive to keep wisdom high, but it is still a useful path for strength clerics, whom I believe it was intended for (but designed wrong).

The fighter/mc cleric in our group is taking this paragon path.

To make a nod towards the actual topic, I chose Dreadnought because it's very nice for serious defender types. Auto-saving against save-ends status effects and gaining damage reduction is great.

 

[Enforcer]

Iron Vanguard, baby! Pump Con, get Hammer Rhythm, and Tide of Iron and you're really dishing it out.