D&D 5E Warlock as Intelligence caster?

[seergun]

So, I found this posted recently in Sage Advise.

Basically, the Warlock flavor seems very intelligence based, but play-testers preferred to keep them as charisma casters, as that was what they were before. Now, I just started about 1.5 years ago with 5e and have no game design, or similar, experience, so I have no background for this, but Int seems like it would have been better if for no other reason than caster stat balance. From the PHB, we have 1^2/3rds Int casters (Wizard, AT, EK), 2^1/2... Wis (Cleric, Druid, Ranger(and Monk...)) and 3^1/2 Cha (Bard, Pal, Sorcerer, Warlock). From this, moving Warlocks to Int would almost perfectly balance out the caster mods.

I've also noticed that a lot of peoples "problem" builds involve a Warlock dip, often due to either Eldritch/Agonizing Blast, short rest recovering spell slots, or both. These almost always seem to be due to smites for the Paladin("general" consensus) or meta magic/more spell known for the Sorcerer(more of a local thing). Don't generally hear complaints about Barlocks. Now, if they were Int based instead, those would be very, or extremely, for a Paladin, harder to pull of. I don't know what kind of shenanigans a Wizlock could pull of, but AT and EK would hardly be affected, I think. Both don't typically need a good Int due to being martial classes and preferring to do damage by attacking, therefore taking utility spells instead of damage/CC effects (shield, haste, blur, find familer, etc, none of which need Int). More specifically, EK get full armor/weapons and AT can't use one of the main Rogue abilities with spells, Sneak Attack, so why invest in a secondary casting stat?

Anyway, this was just something that I found interesting, since even I realized fairly quickly that Int needs a boost, seeing as it's so rarely seen/used, and this seems like it would be great. What are your thoughts?

 

[Lanliss]

Warlock gets their power based on how well they can convince their patron they deserve/need more power. That is the reason they are charisma based.

From a mechanics point of view, I have no comment. I am not good with the deep numbers of DPR.

 

[Al2O3]

I think I argued for Cha during playtest. I see no reason to not change it to Int if that flavour is preferred.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using EN World mobile app

 

[cbwjm]

Go for it, just let your players know in case they create an Int 8, Cha 16 warlock and then find out that you're using Int as the caster stat. You might even want to mix it up. Make fiend and fey pacts charisma (bargaining with dark forces, gaining the attention of a fey lord) and old ones intelligence (discovering dark forces).

 

[Jer]

Warlock gets their power based on how well they can convince their patron they deserve/need more power. That is the reason they are charisma based.

I personally don't like this interpretation for all warlocks because it is way too restrictive. The reasons why the warlock's patron makes a bargain with the warlock for the power they offer should be highly variable. In fact I could argue that a low Charisma individual might be more attracted to the whisperings of a devil offering power in exchange for, well, something to be named at a later date. A trifle really - nothing to concern yourself with. And how could it compare to the power being offered? And then all of those people who laughed at you for being awkward will pay, oh yes, they will pay...


But as far as intelligence as a casting stat goes I don't think it would unbalance things for the warlock. I think the choice of Charisma is more flavor in the case of the warlock than a game balance issue and I think you could switch the mechanics over to Int without skipping a beat if that's what you wanted to do.

 

[WaywardWaffle]

I'm playing a 3 Warlock 9 Wizard right now in my main campaign and it's allowed for a fun, but surprisingly balanced character.

The big difference is that since my character contacted their patron through research and is drawing power from them through their learning we decided to make my particular warlock levels INT based.

So there comes 2 things from this

1) I get literally all my needed combat potency from eldritch blast with agonizing blast and repelling blast invocations. I have no need for anything else except maybe the rare Evard's Black Tentacles to put down some hard crowd control.

2) It lets my wizard spells be entirely utility. The only damaging spells I have are melf's minute meteors and evard's black tentacles. Everything else is clairvoyance, haste, sending, polymorph, enhance ability, things like that.

3) because of this, my wizard has no need to worry about being left behind in combat (due to how cantrips scale on CHARACTER LEVEL instead of CLASS LEVEL), and is able to provide frankly ludicrous amounts of utility for the party without losing any potency in other regards.

4) I have a loooot of slots for lower level spells. Since warlock spellslots are completely seperate from wizard spell slots and can be used interchangeably, I often cast my wizard spells with my warlock slots until I am out of warlock slots and then start using my wizard slots just to have a bit more casting in the day. I have 3 warlock slots that recharge on a short rest and cast at level 2, and then 4 lvl 1 wizard slots, and 3 level 2 wizard slots. It is rare that I NEED to rest to recharge my spell slots.

6) Finally, the book of shadows from the warlock lets me fill out any final corners I may need to fill. I chose Spare the Dying (because we have no healers), Shillelagh (for the rare time I ever need to make a melee attack (ive used it to hit buttons with my staff that an enemy is blocking for example)), and Thorn Whip (mostly because we have a house rule that if the thing you are pulling is heavier than you, you get pulled instead of it being pulled to you (ive used this to save myself when I've fallen off a cliff))

So in summary it is balanced from a mechanical perspective, but it may let your wizards be more useful compared to the rest of the party than you would like them to be.

If the person doing this is your only caster in the party, I'd recommend trying it out just to see how you like it.

For reference, our party is Wizard (me), Rogue Swashbuckler (covers all our talking needs), Barbarian Berserker (covers all our hit stuff needs), and a homebrewed fire elemental Efreeti who takes up a classic 5th person monk/ranger style character, he can fly, cast a few useful spells 1/day, and hits stuff real hard.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

My memory is a little hazy, but I thought 4e gave you the option of being an int-focused or cha-focused warlock (scourge vs. deceptive?). Int implies you make a detailed contract, and your powers are the result of clever detailed negotiating. That would work out pretty well for devils and some kinds of fey, so I would have no problem with that. Charisma is more of a skilled, think on your feat negotiation--which would work pretty well with demons and other kinds of fey. Weird Tales type stories have both kinds of people making deals with GOO's.

There is a lot of inherent shady characterness built into the PHB warlock, which is why they went charisma (charisma skills support shady characters more than int skills).

I agree with the advice others have given, let your players know that you are changing this (or are allowing either/or) before implementing it.

 

[Satyrn]

I'm playing a 3 Warlock 9 Wizard . . .

I'm just curious, if you're warlock was Cha based (and you put your high score there with a 10 Int) how would this affect the wizard portions of your character? The only thing that pops into mind is that you'd have a few less spells prepared.

Since you're casting mostly utility spells with your wizard magic, are many spells actually affected?

And I'm asking, because if it makes such little difference, then I'd say the OP can confidently make the switch knowing he's not overbuffing up anything.

 

[WaywardWaffle]

The big change would be the number of prepared spells yeah but more so would be the loss of potency on my Int based skill checks, of which there is a lot when I'm a majority utility caster, needing to work out information and learn stuff with arcana and nature and investigation and such.

I'd probably have taken every spell I could that had the ritual tag so that I could not worry about needing them prepared and just cast them as a ritual whenever I needed them. It'd make things more difficult to be sure.

 

[MrHotter]

In my game I've house ruled letting players pick Int, Chr, or Wisdom, as their casting stat no mater what class they've picked. I did not want to have a warlock or sorc being the charisma character of the party unless that's what they wanted. I even have a bard that wanted to be inteligence based so they could master history and arcana rather than performance and diplomacy.