D&D General Warlock Great Old One

[jgsugden]

There is an entire school of literary criticism that holds that authorial intent is completely irrelevant when it comes to understanding a work. The work exists on its own, and only what is in the work matters, not what the author planned to put in there. If an author feels that this is disrespectful, well, lacking respect is in many ways part of the job description of a literary analyst.

Yes, there is a "... school of lieterary criticism that holds the authorial intent as completely irrelevant..." In general, it causes more trouble than it is worth. There are a lot of examples where this 'school' is used for propoganda that implies the author supported something that they vocally oppose - many of which offend the sensibilities or moral code of the author. To that end, this 'school' has been utilized to misrepresent the author.

I'm not saying that nothing good has ever come of this 'school'. You can use a work as analogy just as you can use things in nature. However, if I could magically snap my fingers and ensure that everyone always understood the intent of every piece of writing they ever read...

In the end, the point of criticism is to identify the wrong (and to an extent merits). There is a huge difference between: "I see what you intended, and I think it is wrong", and "I'm reading something into your work - something that was not intended and only exists because I as the reader infuse a different meaning than the intended into the work - so that I can use it for me own ends." Obviously, there are thousands of papers, books and articles written about this stuff that argue it out in greater detail, but I prefer to keep it simple.

Don't put words in other people's mouth.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is an entire school of literary criticism that holds that authorial intent is completely irrelevant when it comes to understanding a work.

Sure, but just because something exists, doesn't make it sensible.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Yes, there is a "... school of lieterary criticism that holds the authorial intent as completely irrelevant..." In general, it causes more trouble than it is worth. There are a lot of examples where this 'school' is used for propoganda that implies the author supported something that they vocally oppose - many of which offend the sensibilities or moral code of the author. To that end, this 'school' has been utilized to misrepresent the author.

Interesting. Do you have any specific examples?

 

[jgsugden]

Interesting. Do you have any specific examples?

Tolkien. Look up the 'analogies' where the Lord of the Rings is World War II. Then look up what Tolkien said about it.

 

[niklinna]

And, yes, I know what porcine means. Did you see Porky in the imagery of the Shadows or Vorlons?

No but Garibaldi had a Daffy Duck poster.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Tolkien. Look up the 'analogies' where the Lord of the Rings is World War II. Then look up what Tolkien said about it.

Good example really. LotR was written during and after WW2, of course the war would have influenced Tolkien when he was writing it. It's not surprising that analogies can be found, regardless of what Tolkien said.

 

[Blue Orange]

From what I've read LotR was about Tolkien's WW1 trauma, though of course with WW2 happening at the time that would have been on everyone's minds.

You could make an argument that the ultimate effect of the book is what's left behind after the author is gone. Lots of things were used in ways they weren't intended--They Live wasn't supposed to be an antisemitic conspiracy theory (John Carpenter said so himself and was quite disturbed by its use in that way, it was a metaphor about Reaganomics and consumerism), but other people used it that way.

Heck, Tolkien himself was pretty clear orcs weren't supposed to be any actual human group. (As a Christian, nobody could be beyond salvation.)

 

[Blue Orange]

OK, back to the topic: here's a warforged GOO warlock I haven't heard anyone bring up: Galvatron, from the old Transformers movie.

After a crushing defeat and near death, he makes a bargain with a powerful alien creature from outer space. The thing gives him a new weapon (galvanic laser rather than blade, this being a different genre), new servants, and a ship to travel on, but also can torture him when he steps out of line.

 

[jgsugden]

Good example really. LotR was written during and after WW2, of course the war would have influenced Tolkien when he was writing it. It's not surprising that analogies can be found, regardless of what Tolkien said.

And the interesting questions are there: He says the influence/analogies were not intended and he did not support people reading them into the work. However, it is interesting that they are visible without much squinting all the same ...

... but when the author has told us they were not intended and are not a part of his work I find if disrespectful to look for it.

Beyond that, if you folks want more examples google "author misinterpreted angry" and look at some examples.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Moon Knight is another Warlock example.

For something lighter, Greater American Hero. Person gets super suit from ineffable aliens but brain has blanked it all out and has lost the manual.