D&D 5E Warlocks & Patrons

[Ancalagon]

Hmmm. Talked to the player further, and the character concept he's put forth is one he originally made for another, anime-themed campaign setting with a different group but didn't get to play. That explains a lot to me.

I will have to to disabuse him of the anime connotations though, as that's not even near the theme I want to go with for this game. To each their own but I wouldn't touch an anime theme with a ten foot pole.

I find anime ... not so good ... myself (a few have been awesome, but I've seen a lot of very mediocre and ridiculous stuff too), but if you can make it work in your campaign, don't worry too much about the anime angle, IMO. I've seen some good suggestions in the thread that could make it work.

 

[I'm A Banana]

One thing you might want to consider: training for levels.

Seriously, if one of the issues you're having is that this player is a little more focused on the mechanics than on the world fluff, give them a mechanical reason to engage - at least a little bit - with world fluff. Want to gain another level of warlock? Seek out a fellow servant of your patron or a bit of lost lore - then you can gain a warlock level. Want to gain another level of paladin? Talk to the Order of the Vengeful Blade and the knights there. Stick NPC's in there who care about this divided allegiance, who might oppose each other and fight against each other, that the PC needs to be able to do the mechanical thing that interests them. Even if they just go through the motions in a perfunctory manner, it should create an interesting scenario for you and everyone else at the table.

You want to walk that line between the two? Lie to them? Play double agents? Do it in the game. Don't tell, show. Even better, don't show, do.

 

[Icharbezol]

Honestly I wasn't really that big on multiclassing to start with for this campaign and wasn't going to leave it open as an option until this player mentioned it. I really just wanted the player to be able to do something he liked.

 

[Icharbezol]

Daelkyr half-bloods are a thing...
View attachment 75223

Gaaaah!

 

[Shaghayegh]

His whole experience of the marriage could be an incredibly complicated delusion created by his subconscious to cover up the horrible, Alien nature of his real patron. When he gets to level 17 or 18 and starts finding clues that lead him to the terrifying nature of reality, it will shatter his mind once and for all, leaving him a gibbering madman running naked through town blasting anything that moves until he is killed by a band of heroes...

 

[Herobizkit]

From the creator of Eberron himself:

http://keith-baker.com/category/gaming/eberron-faq/

Keith responds to someone asking about Old One Warlocks being tied to the Quori:

"Enemy of Higher Power. Twist the concept of the Warlock. The PC isn’t a SERVANT of il-Lashtavar. Instead, the Warlock has essentially hacked into il-Lashtavar and is draining its power by casting spells. This concept works well if you don’t plan for a lot of direct warlock-patron interaction. Alternately, you could say that the power is taken from il-Lashtavar, but the patron is il-Yannah; by weakening the darkness, you speed the coming of the light."

This seems like it works for your guy as well.

 

[Savevsdeath]

Sounds like the OP is dead-set against this character as the player wants it and should just say no and make him do something else. When you have to make a player do something the way you want, or punish them for wanting to play a character, it's guaranteed to end badly. IMHO, it's a player/Dm mismatch that will be no fun for either party.

Before you do that though, ask yourself - what is gained by denying this player the character he wants? If you're chasing some ideal of versimilitude or believability, remember that as the DM you decide what's realistic and believable in your campaign world. So why not make it fun for the player? You can just as easily say 'warlocks don't have to bother with keeping their end of the deal and can't lose their powers' as not. And i'm willing to bet it would affect nothing in all practicality, while also giving you ready-made antagonists and plot hooks. Just sayin'.

 

[Jediking]

i don't generally get a whole lot of Cleric players saying "I want to worship X God to gain powers from them, but I want to defame the god's name and destroy their temples." Or Paladin players who say "I want to turn my back on the ideals that I derive my abilities from."

I had a player who wanted to play a Cleric, but was undecided on what domain he wanted because he didn't know what the tenets/ideals/rules to follow would be, and didn't want to have a personality or alignment forced on him. So I asked him what domain he wanted the most and we made up our own god: Zor, the Bolt of Justice was created! (Zeus/Thor, because we are sooo creative). We put down a couple key words (Justice, Merciless, Fickle) and Zor exemplifies those ideals to the extreme, even if they contradict sometimes. Now the Cleric can play as he wanted but still be able to disagree or have conflict with his own god and fellow followers in some ways. Plus, he doesn't have to agree with his god ALL the time, he's an individual character who can question whatever he wants.

So maybe make up the Patron with the Paladin. Get the general deal that happened to get his powers agreed to, but leave room for how and figure out why the Paladin feels cheated or sore at what the situation is now. My 2cp

 

[Icharbezol]

I had a player who wanted to play a Cleric, but was undecided on what domain he wanted because he didn't know what the tenets/ideals/rules to follow would be, and didn't want to have a personality or alignment forced on him. So I asked him what domain he wanted the most and we made up our own god: Zor, the Bolt of Justice was created! (Zeus/Thor, because we are sooo creative). We put down a couple key words (Justice, Merciless, Fickle) and Zor exemplifies those ideals to the extreme, even if they contradict sometimes. Now the Cleric can play as he wanted but still be able to disagree or have conflict with his own god and fellow followers in some ways. Plus, he doesn't have to agree with his god ALL the time, he's an individual character who can question whatever he wants.

So maybe make up the Patron with the Paladin. Get the general deal that happened to get his powers agreed to, but leave room for how and figure out why the Paladin feels cheated or sore at what the situation is now. My 2cp

While I dig what you teamed up with your player to come up with for your game, there's two factors here that are making your experience drastically different than mine.

The player doesn't seem to care about working together to build something with the DM, he is adopting a "my way" attitude. And he wants his character to openly defy and eventually utterly destroy his patron, not just sometimes disagree or occasionally have conflict with them.

He's decided upon an ideal for his vengeance oath: he wants to be a paladin of the Silver Flame and destroy all evil creatures. So his paladin oath is at war with his warlock patron.

I'd be okay with this setup if the patron was more or less in a "plotting the paladin's corruption, most of what I've told him is a lie, and the paladin's resistance is going according to plan" sort of mode, but after trying to discuss it, he insists vehemently that none of these things are going to be the case.

He expects the patron to not be plotting anything against his character, and be buddy-buddy with him even as he plots its downfall because if the patron were to be plotting anything, it would be a "flaw" and he's not building his character to have flaws. He just wants a cool-sounding anti-heroic backstory, with no negatives coming from it.

I'm pretty much done trying to discuss anything with him on the subject at this point. I've advised him that he can say his patron is whatever he wants it to be, tell me about what his warlock perceives their relationship to be and what the patron has told the warlock of its history. But he does not get to roleplay it or tell me how to roleplay it, assign it any stats, or build the patron in any way beyond what he's telling me is the backstory between patron and warlock.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

You know, not every Patron has to be Evil.
The Silver Flame is a gestalt of the essences of almost the entirety of a Good-aligned race, bound together by ideals of sacrifice and protection of the innocent. Typically it lends its power to aid those with similar motivations though Divine magic, but there is nothing to stop a particularly powerful Coatl soul that retains some of its identity from being a Warlock Patron. It could certainly appear as a human female, and may have formed a bond with the Paladin through his Oath, if that was sworn to the Flame.
Typically a Warlock with the Silver Flame Patron might be Undying Light, but Undying One could also fit. Less of a "undead" motif and more of a "just won't die" though healing, but the mechanics could stay the same. You can always describe warlock powers like the Eldritch Bolt as being made up of Silver Fire and similar themes.

. . . and of course, there is always the option of the Shadow in the Flame: One of the Devils that the Silver Flame keeps trapped is the patron. Or a corrupted Coatl soul.

Possibly of use: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041115a
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041122a
- Particularly the flavour text of the first article: its very good as a guide to Paladins dealing with low-level Evil rather than just killing everything.

Is your Paladin player's Oath simnply against "All evil creatures"? Thats a bit . . . vague. Generally something a bit more specific is useful. For example the Silver Flame primarily stands against supernatural Evil.