D&D 5E What are the Roles now?

[MechaPilot]

The roles are still there in 5e, they have always been in D&D, they have just undergone two changes from 4e to 5e:

1) They are no longer explicitly spelled out.

2) The roles and the mechanics for achieving them are no longer wedded strictly to classes. You can find roles in subclasses, in feats, and proficiency.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think that ‘Roles’ is a problematic term as:

a) it suggests that each character has to revert to a type or has a job to do, when actually they can choose to play anything they like and how the like, and…

b) the lines are very blurred with so many Classes having a mix of magical, martial and other abilities in varying amounts.

That said, most successful adventuring parties still tend to balance out abilities and protect particular niches - so in a sense there are still roles to play. They don’t need to be categorised in a heavy handed way, however.

I think one of 4e's short coming in the early play was locking in "All fighters are defenders" giving more freedom, Hey my fighter is a controller, his is a striker works best.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

never mind/ waisted post

 

[SirAntoine]

The party roles in 5th Edition would be the traditional ones, also known as the core classes. Note the roles from 4th Edition were completely unique, and a departure from tradition.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The party roles in 5th Edition would be the traditional ones, also known as the core classes. Note the roles from 4th Edition were completely unique, and a departure from tradition.

Are you just here to diss on 4e...

 

[Sacrosanct]

Are you just here to diss on 4e...

Wait, what? Saying 4e was a depart from tradition is dissing on 4e now? I think it's pretty obvious that 4e took "traditional" D&D and went in a much different direction. That's either good or bad, depending on your preferences, but not a diss just by itself.

 

[SirAntoine]

Are you just here to diss on 4e...

No.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Are you just here to diss on 4e...

To expand on what Sacrosanct said...

A departure from tradition is not necessarily bad. Even 5E departs from it in areas. Sometimes, it works out and you get a very good ruleset... sometimes, it doesn't. Whichever resulted from 4E's departure is not my place to say; 4E didn't die just because of people finding problems with its ruleset. If anything, that's probably the proverbial straw of the whole situation; given what I have heard about the DnD community at the time, it's quite possible what happened after 3.5E ended was simply inevitable.

However, that doesn't mean the roles themselves did exist before 4E. I'm going to be blunt: The 1E players and 2E players I knew called WotC's reasoning for the roles existing bull and suggested WotC was flat-out lying. Maybe they were; maybe they weren't. But even I have to admit I never saw signs of some of those roles. Defender? That wasn't a role for any DnD game I played prior to 4E; it was a temporary tactical consideration, and usually one taken because things were going horribly wrong. Controller wasn't a role; it was a tactical consideration someone like the wizard made when preparing their spells for the day (and, just as often, they chose otherwise). The same character could, at various times during the same adventure, cover every single role that 4E lined out.

That is the DnD the 1E and 2E vets I learned from remember. That is the DnD I played, the Pathfinder I still play, and the 5E I am preparing to play. That is why 4E is a departure from tradition. But it is not a bad departure; it created a way of thinking about classes that can still be used in 5E for a group of people willing to work together, and a way of thinking about classes that is effective in actual play.

 

[KarinsDad]

I personally think that the 4E roles came mostly from MMORPGs, not D&D.

My nephew has played MMORPGs for over a decade. He started 4E about a year ago and 5E shortly before the PHB came out. When I talk to him, he calls his PC (a Battle Master with the Heavy Armor Master and Sentinel feats) a mini-boss and talks about acquiring aggro with him, etc. It's a different mindset. The job of his PC is mostly to soak up attacks with a little bit of dishing out damage in his mind. But, his PC has a specific job or role in the group. Other players in our group (most who have played for over 30 years) do not talk in those terms of necessarily thinking of their PC as having a specific job, especially considering the overlap of abilities (e.g. 3 PCs can heal, 3 PCs have high AC and can go up front, etc.).

 

[Eirikrautha]

I personally think that the 4E roles came mostly from MMORPGs, not D&D.

My nephew has played MMORPGs for over a decade. He started 4E about a year ago and 5E shortly before the PHB came out. When I talk to him, he calls his PC (a Battle Master with the Heavy Armor Master and Sentinel feats) a mini-boss and talks about acquiring aggro with him, etc. It's a different mindset. The job of his PC is mostly to soak up attacks with a little bit of dishing out damage in his mind. But, his PC has a specific job or role in the group. Other players in our group (most who have played for over 30 years) do not talk in those terms of necessarily thinking of their PC as having a specific job, especially considering the overlap of abilities (e.g. 3 PCs can heal, 3 PCs have high AC and can go up front, etc.).

I believe you are correct. It was this familiarity with MMO terminology that sparked the criticism (rightly or wrongly) that 4e played like an MMO. With regards to 1e and 2e roles, my play experience matches yours. Any character might be called upon to be the major damage dealer (wizard vs mobs, cleric vs undead, thief with surprise, etc.) depending on the situation. No one called their character a "striker" and NO ONE built a character for a single role. The single-role building was a feature of 3e+ (my group didn't play with all the 2e splats for that reason... we saw the direction it was drifting). Early D&D focused on combat utility at our table, not on specialization, as you never knew what situation the DM was going to throw at you...