D&D 5E What are your experiences playing paladins/rangers?

[WhosAChaoticGoodBoy]

I'm stoked to play a paladin or ranger someday, but I looove spellcasting and I'm concerned how I'll feel about their spell slot array. (Example: four 1st lvl spellslots and two 2nd lvl spellslots at level 5 sounds pretty limiting)

As such, I'm wondering what your experiences are with these casters. General experience and/or responses to the below prompts would be awesome:

If you normally play full casters, what challenges did you encounter changing your playstyle to a less magic-heavy build?

In practice, do divine smite and spell economy conflict?

Why don't we hear more about two weapon fighting paladins? (Improved divine smite + bonus action attack via TWF sounds like a good deal. )

Is Magic Initiate (feat) to get Shillelagh worth it for paladin?

Can either class' spellcasting array allow them to be a reliable party healer?

Thanks y'all!

 

[Zardnaar]

Paladins don't ge tthe TWF style as an option at level 2.

Both classes do a decent amount of damage if built correctly due to hunters quarry (Ranger, avenging Paladin).

The Oath of the Ancients Paladin give up some damage for a decent spell list and great aura.

Shillelagh is not worth it for most Paladins.

There is a 3pp race called the Dragonkin that gets shillagh as a racial ability and can use charisma to hit with it.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

In general, compared to full-casters who hardly ever run out of spell slots, paladins run out of spell slots much more quickly. Which is to say, I've never seen anyone run out of spells in a day, aside from a paladin who smites with every hit.

The reason that you don't hear about two-weapon fighting is that paladins have plenty of uses for their bonus action, between various spells they want to cast, such that running out of spell slots even faster isn't very appealing. Hunter's Mark gets you more mileage out of both the spell slot and the bonus action than simply making a third smite in the round would. Also, while you can use a holy symbol on your shield as a spellcasting focus, you can't do that while wielding two weapons unless you take a feat for it.

That being said, a paladin can easily serve as party healer, because a party doesn't really need a healer. Between hit dice for healing and the ability to sleep off any ailment, you don't even need to worry about it.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Another factor that makes most people overlook 2 weapon fighting is that the Great Weapon Master feat is extremely strong. If the party does anything to improve the paladin's chance to hit ( Bless being the main contributor, but Faerie Fire is another good one if the enemies fail their saves ), the damage really ends up eclipsing the two weapon fighting and when you drop an enemy or crit you can make another attack as a bonus action. That third swing is normally the one thing that two weapon fighting has over 2-handed weapon fighting.

 

[Valetudo]

The sword and board is a strong option for pallys as well. Most of their dpr is from smites and with self healing they are super tanky, or atleast for 5e.

 

[Boscogn]

I love the Paladin. I like how it can support the group and still be very strong. Vengeance oath being the one I go for most. The limited spell slots, lack of AOE, weak ranged attacks are a weaknesses that come to mind. For this reason I think people try to multiclass into warlock so they can short rest to replenish spell slots for more smites. Get an early aoe fear and eldrich blast. If you want to go full munchkin you go Variant human with pole arm mastery and sentinel then get devil's eyes warlock trait and cast darkness. Aside from that we have bless, summon steed, and aura of vitality which is a strong aoe heal. Hold person can create attacks of opportunity as well. Auras that increase saves etc.

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[Li Shenron]

I'm stoked to play a paladin or ranger someday, but I looove spellcasting and I'm concerned how I'll feel about their spell slot array. (Example: four 1st lvl spellslots and two 2nd lvl spellslots at level 5 sounds pretty limiting)

No way... compare it with 3e where you had to wait around evel 12 or 14 to get the same number of spells per day! 6 Spells per day means 1-2 spells per combat. You also get other non-spell magical abilities such as Lay on Hands and Channel Divinity. All in all this is not bad at all considering that spellcasting is supposed to be a secondary feature of Paladins and Rangers.

If you normally play full casters, what challenges did you encounter changing your playstyle to a less magic-heavy build?

No special challenge. It's not different from playing a multiclass spellcaster/martial character. If anything, it's easier than a full spellcaster in the sense that you overall get a smaller number of spells known to manage and choose from.

In practice, do divine smite and spell economy conflict?

It's supposed to conflict by design, when they required Divine Smite to use use spell slots. I don't remember right now, but it's even possible that during the playtest years Divine Smite was a spell for a while.

Why don't we hear more about two weapon fighting paladins? (Improved divine smite + bonus action attack via TWF sounds like a good deal. )

I think this is merely due to the traditional image of Paladins being "knights in shiny armor", which matches well with sword & board or 2HW styles, but not with 2WF and archery. This is why the Fighting Styles selection for Paladins is limited.

But then... keep in mind that if you want a 2WF Palading you can always do these:

- take the 2WF feat
- take a level of Fighter
- attack with different weapons when using Extra Attack

And also keep in mind that if a single-class Paladin can't be as good as a 2WF'er as a single-class Fighter or Ranger (exactly because of no access to 2WF Fighting Style), this is also by design. It follows the 5e design principle that some characters simply must have the best options in the game for something that is decided it should be their niche.

Is Magic Initiate (feat) to get Shillelagh worth it for paladin?

I don't know, but in general Shillelagh is designed for Druids.

Can either class' spellcasting array allow them to be a reliable party healer?

[/QUOTE]

Reliable, yes. Certainly not as massive as a Cleric can be.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I found myself using my Paladin spell-slots mainly for Smiting. The most common casting I do is Protection from Good/Evil, Bless and Misty Step.

 

[CydKnight]

I'm stoked to play a paladin or ranger someday, but I looove spellcasting and I'm concerned how I'll feel about their spell slot array. (Example: four 1st lvl spellslots and two 2nd lvl spellslots at level 5 sounds pretty limiting)

As such, I'm wondering what your experiences are with these casters. General experience and/or responses to the below prompts would be awesome:

If you normally play full casters, what challenges did you encounter changing your playstyle to a less magic-heavy build?

In practice, do divine smite and spell economy conflict?

Why don't we hear more about two weapon fighting paladins? (Improved divine smite + bonus action attack via TWF sounds like a good deal. )

Is Magic Initiate (feat) to get Shillelagh worth it for paladin?

Can either class' spellcasting array allow them to be a reliable party healer?

Thanks y'all!

In a vacuum, if you are comparing a Paladin and Ranger who are not primary spell casters, to Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer, the spells will seem limiting if you don't consider what else they bring to the table. Their spell sets are meant to compliment their other skills both combat and non-combat.

Divine Smite effects spell economy if you look at it that way. Treat it like a spell that you always have prepared.

I am not sure why you "don't hear about two weapon fighting paladins" but my impression is that the off hand is often needed holding/focusing on your holy symbol and/or healing in combat. If you put the holy symbol on your shield, you could at least have a benefit to AC that way.

I can't speak to whether Shillelagh is worth it for a Paladin or not but I can tell you that anyone I know that has used Shillelagh loves it.

As far as healing goes, Paladin is set up better for that because of Lay on Hands in addition to the healing spell choices available. Ranger isn't bad as a secondary healer in my opinion but Paladin is a better option especially if you don't have a Cleric in the party.

 

[Kalshane]

It's important to not think of a paladin as a spellcaster. The spells are nice and situationally can come in handy, but you're probably going to be using your spell slots to smite.

I've played both a Devotion paladin and a Vengeance paladin. Devotion I've cast Sanctuary on an ally in trouble, Protection from Good and Evil when fighting a horde of demons and Beacon of Hope when fighting a dragon, but otherwise I burn through all my spell slots smiting. My Vengeance paladin uses Hunter's Mark on big enemies that are going to last a few rounds and has used Misty Step for battlefield mobility, but I don't think I've used any other spells on his list. (Though that may change once he gets Haste.)

Shillelagh isn't worth it for a straight paladin. Remember, spells gained from Magic Initiate use the spellcasting stat of the class you learn them from. A paladin generally isn't going to have a high Wisdom.

Now, an Ancients Paladin/Fey Pact Tomelock that picks up Shillelagh could be a fun character. (Since the Pact of the Tome specifically changes the cantrips learned to Warlock spells and thus use Charisma.)