D&D 5E What do you think a psychic class should look like in 5e?

[keterys]

If you want to make psionics unique in the system, make it so their powers aren't guaranteed; if they have to make ability checks to accomplish their powers, that's both a throwback to 2E and an actual difference.

I'd also dig psionics working more around short rests than long rests (similar to warlock); that makes it less of a weird thing where psionicists are the best at nova-ing (power points = all high level spells), but then sleep for a day immediately after.

 

[Werebat]

Psionics has traditionally all about providing players with boatloads of advantage and xxxploitz to bring to the table and make the DM cry. And 5e rewrite of the psionicist would have to stick to tradition on these important points.

 

[SkidAce]

Psionics has traditionally all about providing players with boatloads of advantage and xxxploitz to bring to the table and make the DM cry. And 5e rewrite of the psionicist would have to stick to tradition on these important points.

I cordially disagree with you assessment.

Psionics has been abused in the past, much like anything else.

But IME, we have mainly used it to show or worldly or different powers, such as the mindflayer empire etc.

In our longest running campaign, psionics was the purview of the Progentor race, as it was the ultimate mind over matter. Many gods didn't like this.

When encountering the ancient ruins and artifacts of the elder races, it became apparant that their power was different. A few PCs gained some wild talents via a malfunctioning telepathic device (think O'neill and Stargate).

This gave them an edge and insight into the workings of psionics, and its true nature in the cosmos, and allowed then to cope.

 

[Werebat]

If you want to make psionics unique in the system, make it so their powers aren't guaranteed; if they have to make ability checks to accomplish their powers, that's both a throwback to 2E and an actual difference.

I'd also dig psionics working more around short rests than long rests (similar to warlock); that makes it less of a weird thing where psionicists are the best at nova-ing (power points = all high level spells), but then sleep for a day immediately after.

YES! And since they need ability checks to activate, their powers need to be more powerful in order to remain competitive. Then introduce some cheesy C-C-C-COMBOS that let them make the ability checks virtually all of the time, and get a reroll when they don't; you know, splat book feats, magic items, what have you. BLAM! You got your traditional Psionicist right there.

Edit: Would be good if they got some dealio where their powers blew right through SR, too -- because, you know, PSIONICS!

 

[Werebat]

I cordially disagree with you assessment.

Psionics has been abused in the past, much like anything else.

But IME, we have mainly used it to show or worldly or different powers, such as the mindflayer empire etc.

In our longest running campaign, psionics was the purview of the Progentor race, as it was the ultimate mind over matter. Many gods didn't like this.

When encountering the ancient ruins and artifacts of the elder races, it became apparant that their power was different. A few PCs gained some wild talents via a malfunctioning telepathic device (think O'neill and Stargate).

This gave them an edge and insight into the workings of psionics, and its true nature in the cosmos, and allowed then to cope.

So... You've never actually played the game with Psionicist PCs at the table, then?

Just Wild Talents?

Were these Wild Talent powers by any chance determined by the DM, or maybe random roll?

 

[Gargoyle]

I'd like to see four things with regard to psionics:

1. An open playtest, just like for 5e.
2. A free PDF of Basic psionic rules before Dark Sun comes out; support for wild talents, a psionic class, and psionic monsters.
3. A release of a comprehensive Psionics Player's Handbook, preferably prior to Dark Sun, or at least soon after.
4. Some adventures and monsters featuring psionics in future products.

Psionics has been an area of rules that historically seems to struggle the most, and it needs much more work than just a rough copy and paste with some internal playtesting. I'd rather see it come out later than done poorly this time.

Specifically I'm not sure I care what form the psionic rules take, as long as it presents some interesting options that are seamless with the rest of the game, yet remains distinct from magic.

 

[Siphersh]

Psionics has traditionally all about providing players with boatloads of advantage and xxxploitz to bring to the table and make the DM cry. And 5e rewrite of the psionicist would have to stick to tradition on these important points.

Even before there was a dedicated psychic class, even in OD&D and in 1st edition, the idea was that you get better and better with your powers, as opposed to having higher and higher level spells. Because it's something that you do. Like a skill. As opposed to magic, which is something that you use.

That's what makes psionics psionics. Even the concept of psionics strength points is based on that narrative feature. Spell slots are these abstract receptacles for these alien magical-mental entities, which is not applicable to psionics. Because psionics is just something that you do.

I totally believe you that your pessimism is historically justified, but when I look at the way 5E manages to build classes, and when I look at 5E in general, there's this incredible flexibility in the system that can very nicely combine different kinds of character progression. Of course a purely skill-like character progression would be very difficult to make balanced. But I think that 5E can be able to push this skill-like concept of level-of-mastery that defines psionics, it can push it really far, because it can nicely surround it with supporting class features.

I agree with Gargoyle, WotC should really take their time with it.

The situation that you're referring to, when the player picks a psionicist from the rulebook and drops it in the DM's non-psionic campaign, I think that maybe 5E can make even that work.

Although to be honest, I'm not really worried about that. That's an extreme scenario. A psionicist PC class should be something that the DM's campaign provides as an option. And not something that the PC brings to the table and shoves it into a classical campaign.

What I'm more interested in is Dark Sun. It would be nice to have a wild talent feat, because Dark Sun is not Dark Sun without that. In Dark Sun psionics is much more prevalent than magic. So the issues are very different from the plug-and-play psychic scenario.

 

[Werebat]

What I'm more interested in is Dark Sun. It would be nice to have a wild talent feat, because Dark Sun is not Dark Sun without that. In Dark Sun psionics is much more prevalent than magic. So the issues are very different from the plug-and-play psychic scenario.

Hmm. I was a big fan of Dark Sun back in the day (2e); didn't realize that it was still popular and being planned for 5e.

In 2e, I completely reworked the psionics system for my own Dark Sun campaign.

 

[Curmudjinn]

I agree with others who foresee it as a single class with multiple paths. I.e. Psion/Wilder/Soulknife. I am not too sure about a minor feat. I can see someone who dabbled in magic and knows a few cantrips. The idea that somebody dabbled in, or is kinda psychic, doesn't seem as plausible to me.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Wild Talent feat that functions like Magic Initiate. It would allow a PC to touch on psionics without having to fully jump in. Honestly, I wouldn't mind it as a setting-specific background, like Acolyte of Zuoken or Awakened of Auppenser.
Something like that could allow the character to feel and understand psionics without actually granting powers.

 

[Curmudjinn]

I started working on a rendition of the class today. Hopefully I'll have the time to fully realize this before long, as the braingine is firing on all cylinders currently.

Without the details as of yet, the class will start as the Psionicist. No names are final, of course.
Powers will be handled in a limited at-will fashion, and expanded significantly depending on the Psionic Path(subclass) you take.
These Paths are:

The Psion
The class as we know it. The full-blown manifester, taking his trained skills of the mind in the direction of whichever Psionic Discipline(or whatever comes out of powers eventually) they so choose. A psicrystal is going to happen, with some modifications on how one is created and maintained.

The Battlemind
The path of the Psionicist that contains the psychic warrior and the soulknife. This path allows a few Disciplines, one being psychic defense(fields, misdirection, precognition), one being a dreadnaught(size increases, resistances, speed increases, etc), and a Discipline of creating various mindblades. You are no longer directed to being a sneaky soulknife, but can be a sneaky psychic warrior type, or a stalward battle soulknife-type.

The Conduit
This is the new guy in town. It is a combination of the Wilder and a nod to the Warlock. The Conduit is a beacon of the mind, a psychic vessel of a greater entity, maybe a deity of psionics, maybe a vastly powerful aberration, or maybe something else entirely in which the Conduit is marginally aware of, or even NOT aware of. The Conduit's powers are always in flux, sometimes surging when least expected, but often waning and waxing when the Conduit channels their will for it to do so.


What do you think?