Curiously, my position is the exact opposite of this. I think Spelljammer works wonderfully as a stand-alone setting, and the main thing that killed it was the focus on using it as a way to travel from Oerth to Toril to Krynn. If they had started by focusing on the setting's own identity, with something like the Astromundi Cluster (but better), I think SJ would have done better and would also not have gotten as many vocal detractors as it did.Thresher said:Never liked it as a stand-alone setting but it back-ends onto existing settings wonderfully, travel to new worlds, meet people, laugh evilly and nuke em till they glow
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What do you think of Spelljammer?
- Thread starter Alzrius
- Start date
seasong
First Post
I liked spelljammer, and while I didn't think it was the worst they could have done, I also didn't think it was anywhere near the best. It was very obvious that there were two groups working on it, the ones trying for fascinating flavor and setting, and the ones that wanted to put tinkergnomes in space.
Never saw Shadow of the Spider Moon, perhaps I should look for it.
Never saw Shadow of the Spider Moon, perhaps I should look for it.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Here's my humble opinion:
As a separate system Spelljammer may have worked. Flying ship piracy in three dimensions could work nicely in a Space: 1889 kind of way(as noted above). It did have many original ideas that creatively tied in all of the standard D&D aspects into a space-based game. Dungeons, treasure, monsters and magic were all included straight from the original game. Unfortunately, this tie-in to D&D is also Spelljammer's greatest weakness. While D&D could be construed as a plausible medieval fantasy world, Spelljammer was completely implausible. Besides being difficult to relate to it seemed to make fantasy and sci-fi (of which it was a hybrid) appear both silly and comical.
Wizards (or was it TSR still?) redeemed themselves with the release of Alternity, a much better game firmly rooted in hard core science fiction tales. Spelljammer is best left to its own small group of fans, like many of the other smaller settings. Dedicated fans who band together seem to have a better grasp of what is best about their particular game, anyways. Spelljammer fanatics should be the ones who make the new materials. Maybe what they will come up with could prove the game's real worth.
So what are we left with for Space in most D&D fantasy worlds? In first edition some modules dropped in spaceship crashes to have a cross-over feel without removing the fantasy element. 2nd Edition, however, opened up many elements traditionally belonging to science fiction. Time travel, spelljammer space travel, and dimension hopping all seemed to sell poorly.
3rd edition, I 'd suggest trying to be either historically accurate or as close to myth as possible. Maybe we're all closed in by spheres.
As a separate system Spelljammer may have worked. Flying ship piracy in three dimensions could work nicely in a Space: 1889 kind of way(as noted above). It did have many original ideas that creatively tied in all of the standard D&D aspects into a space-based game. Dungeons, treasure, monsters and magic were all included straight from the original game. Unfortunately, this tie-in to D&D is also Spelljammer's greatest weakness. While D&D could be construed as a plausible medieval fantasy world, Spelljammer was completely implausible. Besides being difficult to relate to it seemed to make fantasy and sci-fi (of which it was a hybrid) appear both silly and comical.
Wizards (or was it TSR still?) redeemed themselves with the release of Alternity, a much better game firmly rooted in hard core science fiction tales. Spelljammer is best left to its own small group of fans, like many of the other smaller settings. Dedicated fans who band together seem to have a better grasp of what is best about their particular game, anyways. Spelljammer fanatics should be the ones who make the new materials. Maybe what they will come up with could prove the game's real worth.
So what are we left with for Space in most D&D fantasy worlds? In first edition some modules dropped in spaceship crashes to have a cross-over feel without removing the fantasy element. 2nd Edition, however, opened up many elements traditionally belonging to science fiction. Time travel, spelljammer space travel, and dimension hopping all seemed to sell poorly.
3rd edition, I 'd suggest trying to be either historically accurate or as close to myth as possible. Maybe we're all closed in by spheres.
loviatarfrostbringer
First Post
I like Spelljammer, and my DM has his own 3E conversion site (acknowledged by the "Official" SJ site). I've helped convert a bunch of monsters and I do a lot of artwork my buddy's site.
The Shattered Fractine!
www.shatteredfractine.com
As far as oddness, it really is out there. However I like the phlogiston and another way to visit other worlds. Real world physics are out the window, but we game for diversion...not for "I canna change the laws of physics!"-lawyers.
The Shattered Fractine!
www.shatteredfractine.com
As far as oddness, it really is out there. However I like the phlogiston and another way to visit other worlds. Real world physics are out the window, but we game for diversion...not for "I canna change the laws of physics!"-lawyers.
I love the setting so much that I have been making conversions for the spelljammer setting for 3e/D20. My site is the Shattered Fractine
I am sure that in time that those that love the setting will create more and more material that is new. New monsters, new ships, new adventures that will be online. But for now most of us are still creating conversions for the spelljammer setting.
As to wildspace keep in mind it is not real space. Fantasy space should be different and open decks to space with air envolpes is refreshing. As to silly elements (and tinker gnomes and giant space hamsters are indeed silly), well lets say some humor in game is healthy. And as to Giffs, I have never seen them as silly or wonky.
Beyond the Moons is the offical site. Another site of interest is Andy Collins.Net
So take a step back and rethink one perception of space and see just how fantastic fantasy space can be. The possibility for unique monsters and ships and roleplaying is worth looking into.
Mark T. Doolan
I am sure that in time that those that love the setting will create more and more material that is new. New monsters, new ships, new adventures that will be online. But for now most of us are still creating conversions for the spelljammer setting.
As to wildspace keep in mind it is not real space. Fantasy space should be different and open decks to space with air envolpes is refreshing. As to silly elements (and tinker gnomes and giant space hamsters are indeed silly), well lets say some humor in game is healthy. And as to Giffs, I have never seen them as silly or wonky.
Beyond the Moons is the offical site. Another site of interest is Andy Collins.Net
So take a step back and rethink one perception of space and see just how fantastic fantasy space can be. The possibility for unique monsters and ships and roleplaying is worth looking into.
Mark T. Doolan
Starspeed
First Post
Spelljammer had so much potential to be more than what it became. Sure it had some wacky points to it. But, just like any other campaign setting, the DM can choose what he wants in it. If you don't like the wacky stuff, pull it.
Personally, I saw SJ as a mega-campaign setting where the possibilities never ended and absolutely loved it!
Personally, I saw SJ as a mega-campaign setting where the possibilities never ended and absolutely loved it!
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
I didn't play Spelljammer, but I've done enough research to know that it looked very fun, space hamsters or no.
And on a complete tanget, did the Treasure Planet movie remind you terribly of Spelljammer? I hope that the DVD has an alternative ending where the crew's brains are eaten by illithids.
Demiurge out.
And on a complete tanget, did the Treasure Planet movie remind you terribly of Spelljammer? I hope that the DVD has an alternative ending where the crew's brains are eaten by illithids.
Demiurge out.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Starspeed said:
You and me both Starspeed. I still think back to that adventure Under the Dark Fist, which could have been so, so much more than it was...it almost breaks my heart, I swear.
Think about it...the premise is that an empire, composed of twelve crystal spheres, decides to conquer Greyspace, Realmspace, and Krynnspace. That could have been so huge, such a major universe-altering event...and they made it a 64-page adventure. It should have been a boxed set dead minimum. They should have done that as a boxed set and not The Astromundi Cluster, which didn't impress me much at all.
"For of all sad words of tongue or pen
The saddest are these: “It might have been ...”"
- Evaline Amelia Delano
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