D&D 5E What do you want in a Dark Sun book (sans psionics)?

[Maxperson]

DS druids were more localist and generalist, weren't they? Very concerned with their guarded lands etc. They weren't anything like as tightly tied to the elements as elemental clerics were. A druid associated with a volcanic area, for instance, might focus more on fire-related spells but I don't think there was ever much in the way of mechanical support/enforcement of that.

Hmm. I think you're right. I was misrembering them as the elemental clerics.

 

[Parmandur]

I’d really love to see defining and preservation as things any caster (or at least any arcane caster) can do, rather than just arcane traditions. If that means subclasses for all the caster classes I’d be down with that, but it would be pretty disappointing if they were tied to a single class.

I got that one from a thing Mearls did a while back about how 5E Dark Sun would go: might not apply anymore, but he made a strong case for Defining and Preserving as Subclasses with other Wizards put "off-limit." It'll be interesting to see how it is treated in the end.

 

[humble minion]

Maybe have variant Preservation/Defilement spellcasting rules that apply to all forms of spellcasting, and then dedicated subclasses for a few classes that take it further than the variant rules?

The problem with dedicated subclasses for defilers/preservers is that it locks the character in to one way of doing things. Personally, I'd want defiling to always be a temptation for preservers, if there's a special subclass for particularly dedicated preservers that you can choose at level 2 and that gives special preserver-related abilities, I'm not sure that would stay the case. And what happens if special preserver guy DOES get desperate and defile? Does he lose his subclass? You run into the old 2e 'fallen paladin' problem all over again.

 

[TwoSix]

The problem with dedicated subclasses for defilers/preservers is that it locks the character in to one way of doing things. Personally, I'd want defiling to always be a temptation for preservers, if there's a special subclass for particularly dedicated preservers that you can choose at level 2 and that gives special preserver-related abilities, I'm not sure that would stay the case. And what happens if special preserver guy DOES get desperate and defile? Does he lose his subclass? You run into the old 2e 'fallen paladin' problem all over again.

Honestly, if they did go the preserver/defiler route, I'd like to see them as different classes. 2 different variants of wizard, with their own subclasses. Defilers get more obvious power, preservers get more subtle power. And preservers have a subclass like Oathbreaker paladin if they use defiling power too many times.

 

[Hoffmand]

What would you set the max at?

Do I need a max for dark sun? 2E had ability Scores going as high as 24. And that was pretty badass in that edition that isn’t even comparable with 5E

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I would like to see Dark Sun become it's own variant of D&D. Build mechanics and play from the ground up. Focus on the struggle against overwhelming odds, and playing to survive every day in a world with few resources to spare. Don't just dress up a typical D&D game where you pick the same roles, get the same abilities, and get the same rewards and expectations.

In a world where magic is feared and hated, no player should just pick a wizard and start filling up their spellbook as usual. Preserver and defiler mean nothing if we're only thinking in terms of class options and mechanics. And given that the majority of classes in 5e have spellcasting abilities, or options to select a subclass that does, I strongly disapprove any straight conversion or translation that doesn't look like a complete overhaul. Just my preference, of course.

 

[Fenris-77]

Do I need a max for dark sun? 2E had ability Scores going as high as 24. And that was pretty badass in that edition that isn’t even comparable with 5E

Well, need is maybe a strong word. I was just more curious if you had one.

 

[Jester David]

It could be as many as 320-pages, like Eberron but it could also be as small as Ravnica and 256-pages
A Wildemount-comparable 304-pages seems a compromise.

Races. Mul, thri-kreen, and goliath/ half-giant. This needs a couple pages on each of those as well as two or three pages on the classical races: elves, dwarves, halfings, humans, and dragonborn. Really, because each race is heavily revised, this will be a larger section than other books.
20-pages
Classes. Psion needs to be there. It encourage players uninterested in Dark Sun to purchase. This and spells will likely be longer than the artificer. And a few psionic feats should also be reprinted.
15-pages
Dark Sun Characters. Defiling and preserving. Elemental clerics, templar warlock. This could be expanded to describe how classes like the bard differ. Rules for obsidian and stone weapons.
10-pages
Backgrounds. Quite a few that can fit here. Maybe a revised gladiator, a slave, dune trader, apprentice templar, veiled alliance, etc.
6-pages
Gazeteer. This will likely be as long as Eberron or Ravnica got.
20-pages. If even that.
Adventures in Athas. Factions, some locations, and desert survival. Hazards of the wastelands.
30-pages.
Tyr Descripton. A description of this city-state and set-up for the fall of its sorcerer-king, like the 4e version.
15-pages
Adventure. The usual
12-pages.

At 128-pages this is potentially a third of the book, easily. If not more with extra art and maps. So a subtotal of 140-pages.

Ravnica had 79 monsters and Eberron had 30. I imagine this would have far more. The 4e Dark Sun Creature Catalog has 55 plus 15 NPCs. And I'm sure there are a variety of others and doubles, along with some big HIGH CR monsters that will likely take-up a couple pages.
90-pages seems reasonable, for a new subtotal of 230-pages.

So there's a little room for expansion and some extra content.

However, the book also needs some other new addition.
Ravnica had the expanded faction rules, Eberron had group patrons, Wildemount has the heroic chronicles, Theros has the supernatural gifts. There needs to be some new mechanical option or rules edition that can be adapted for other campaigns (beyond obsidian weapons and defiling).

 

[Jester David]

Defiling and Preserving. Being able to recover a spell slot by draining life from an area during a rest might reflect this. Or boosting a spell's level (as if casting using a higher level spell slot) by draining life.
But then this brings up allowing a mechanical combat bonus for what is basically a roleplaying penalty.

Hrm... I wonder if it could also suck up Hit Dice from nearby creatures and you regain a spellslot based on that. Which hurts PCs but doesn't really affect enemies as they'll be dead and won't be able to spend their Hit Dice.

Obsidian and bone. I liked how 4e handled this with having the option to reroll an attack roll but the weapon breaks. So it's a choice.

 

[Ogre Mage]

The goodberry spell would have to be changed. The goodberries still restore 1 HP per berry but they no longer provide nourishment.