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If you have a 10% chance of a death per fight, you're going to lose a PC about every 10 fights. Individual campaigns will vary, but over the long term it will be 1 in 10. That's easily 1 PC death every 2 adventuring days. Unless you're running a Tomb of Horrors style game, that seems rather high and unheroic. That's why the odds are actually significantly more in the PCs favor, in general.

1 death every 10 (important) fights sounds just fine to me. It would be nice if you could skip over all unimportant fights (random encounter with bears, etc.) and I've considered giving my players the option to skip fights ("you can either play this fight out, or expend 10 HP or one spell slot of level 1d3, per character, and skip it/dictate the outcome--which do you prefer?"), but so far I haven't. Anyway, as a player I like harder fights, and a 10% death rate per fight would be awesome, if it were narratively plausible.

To make this work I think you'd need a campaign which was all about fighting some exponentially-reproducing threat, like Witchlight Marauders or Vampires or something. You'll have to fight dozens of CR 8-15 creatures every day. Just think how much experience you'd be getting! I must think further on this...
 

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Are these monsters from the official MM or other sources? I haven't found anything yet in the MM that can handle even a same-level party of four, let alone one of higher level. Well, except for Intellect Devourers and Pixies. Are those the cases you're thinking of?

Official MM only. I haven't looked at 3PP sources yet.

The shadows are an example that really comes to mind.
 

SirAntoine

Banned
Banned
Writing a story and writing an adventure, despite sharing certain traits, are two very different things.

Even in those stories, unless they happen to be dark and gritty, how often do protagonists actually die? Probably not very often. The writer makes you feel that the characters are in mortal jeopardy when in actuality he has no intention of killing them, because that's what a good author does.

If you have a 10% chance of a death per fight, you're going to lose a PC about every 10 fights. Individual campaigns will vary, but over the long term it will be 1 in 10. That's easily 1 PC death every 2 adventuring days. Unless you're running a Tomb of Horrors style game, that seems rather high and unheroic. That's why the odds are actually significantly more in the PCs favor, in general.

No one would adventure if it were really that dangerous. 10% sounds small, but it's super high if you're talking about having five fights each day or something. Adventuring is a profession remember, a dangerous one but not an insane or impossible one. 0.2% is more reasonable. If you have a campaign where every fight is dangerous, though, and say you have one fight every week on average, you could get up to 10%.

If you're doing a campaign where the action is not about adventure per say, but trying to save someone or something likewise important, then it justifies the greater risk.
 

SirAntoine

Banned
Banned
1 death every 10 (important) fights sounds just fine to me. It would be nice if you could skip over all unimportant fights (random encounter with bears, etc.) and I've considered giving my players the option to skip fights ("you can either play this fight out, or expend 10 HP or one spell slot of level 1d3, per character, and skip it/dictate the outcome--which do you prefer?"), but so far I haven't. Anyway, as a player I like harder fights, and a 10% death rate per fight would be awesome, if it were narratively plausible.

To make this work I think you'd need a campaign which was all about fighting some exponentially-reproducing threat, like Witchlight Marauders or Vampires or something. You'll have to fight dozens of CR 8-15 creatures every day. Just think how much experience you'd be getting! I must think further on this...

In the long run, the unimportant fights pay off both for experience and for giving the players time to relax and enjoy how powerful their characters have become. They also add immersion and verisimilitude, of course.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
1 death every 10 (important) fights sounds just fine to me. It would be nice if you could skip over all unimportant fights (random encounter with bears, etc.) and I've considered giving my players the option to skip fights ("you can either play this fight out, or expend 10 HP or one spell slot of level 1d3, per character, and skip it/dictate the outcome--which do you prefer?"), but so far I haven't. Anyway, as a player I like harder fights, and a 10% death rate per fight would be awesome, if it were narratively plausible.

To make this work I think you'd need a campaign which was all about fighting some exponentially-reproducing threat, like Witchlight Marauders or Vampires or something. You'll have to fight dozens of CR 8-15 creatures every day. Just think how much experience you'd be getting! I must think further on this...

To each his own. I've played in campaigns that were like that and I found it terrible. The fights could be fun (although oftentimes frustrating), but it was difficult for the players to invest in their characters, since they knew they'd probably only last a session or three. I like combat a lot, but I like role-play and character development better, which is why I don't care for that style of game.

If you don't like unimportant fights, I recommend making the majority hard/deadly fights, with easy and medium encounters thrown in just for an occasional change of pace. My players like to be challenged, so that's what I do.
 

No one would adventure if it were really that dangerous. 10% sounds small, but it's super high if you're talking about having five fights each day or something. Adventuring is a profession remember, a dangerous one but not an insane or impossible one. 0.2% is more reasonable. If you have a campaign where every fight is dangerous, though, and say you have one fight every week on average, you could get up to 10%.

If you're doing a campaign where the action is not about adventure per say, but trying to save someone or something likewise important, then it justifies the greater risk.

This, the bolded part. I don't like campaigns that are all about professional "adventurers" casually delving dungeons for fun and profit. Such settings bore me. I like campaigns that start off with a gigantic, snowballing disaster, like a John Ringo novel, and the PCs are the ones trying to hold things together in the absence of someone who is really qualified for the job.

Dynamic settings, not steady-state.

In the long run, the unimportant fights pay off both for experience and for giving the players time to relax and enjoy how powerful their characters have become. They also add immersion and verisimilitude, of course.

I agree! This is why I've given my players a whole month of dungeon delving and fighting relatively simple threats, which they handled easily. (It was only two days of game time.) Meanwhile, the crises are boiling elsewhere.

And this is why I would only make it an option to skip fights. I don't know if they'd take it, because I don't know whether it's fun to narrate taking away the enemy hobgoblin sergeants' spear and gutting him with it, backwards, while taking only a small scratch from a lucky hit by a trooper--or to roll it out using dice. I honestly don't know.

To each his own. I've played in campaigns that were like that and I found it terrible. The fights could be fun (although oftentimes frustrating), but it was difficult for the players to invest in their characters, since they knew they'd probably only last a session or three. I like combat a lot, but I like role-play and character development better, which is why I don't care for that style of game.


If you don't like unimportant fights, I recommend making the majority hard/deadly fights, with easy and medium encounters thrown in just for an occasional change of pace. My players like to be challenged, so that's what I do.

To each his own. As a player, I like hard fights, and I don't mind dying. As a DM, I leave it mostly up to my players which part of the sandbox they play in, and I try to telegraph difficulty so they can cut and run if desired. I'm still a pretty new DM, and I have yet to actually challenge my group with the kind of opposition I would want to face, myself. (Well, I have, but so far they've walked away each time without engaging, which is probably some kind of signal. :) Maybe if I use bigger monsters with a higher XP award...?)
 
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DaveDash

Explorer
[MENTION=6787650]emdw45[/MENTION] - Try out a Mindflayer Arcanist (and give him greater invisibility, misty step, etc) and tears from your players shall flow. :)
 

@emdw45 - Try out a Mindflayer Arcanist (and give him greater invisibility, misty step, etc) and tears from your players shall flow. :)

I guess I'll run this by my test party then. My first thought is that Greater Invisibility has a paltry duration, so as soon as they recognize what's happening they will just pull back (SOP when encountering unknown threats), assuming they don't simply kill the thing despite its invisibility. But maybe this will be the one time when a monster actually earns its CR. :)

Am I to assume the strategy involves detecting the party's approach in advance, casting Greater Invisibility, then Mind Blasting them all in a concentrated group before grappling/Misty Stepping to a place where it can eat the brains in peace? Is that the gist of it? It could work, although it would work a lot better if the Mind Flayer had an Intellect Devourer along to detect the Shadow Monk sneaking around. That would raise the difficulty to 30% over Deadly of course, but it could work.
 


Wulfgar76

First Post
Though my group is only level 7-8, I began to notice the telltale signs of a "nobody ever dies, we always win if we want" game. I think some of the blame can be laid at the generous death save rules. My players were up for tweaking the rules to create a grittier/deadlier game, so I've been tinkering with death saves...

Roll a 6-20, rules as written apply.
Roll a 2-5, you suffer some sort of injury that cannot be healed until you take a long rest or receive some powerful healing magic like Heal or Regenerate.
Roll a 1, you die.

These Death Save rules, for the time being, seem to have injected refreshing danger and caution into my game.
 

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