What is Ptolus anyway?

[Thanee]

That explains...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mistwell]

On a per-page basis, it compares quite well to WotC hardcovers, even at the higher price. (The Amazon price is going to be as helpful as their price for Rappan Athuk Reloaded, I suspect.)

No offense, as I am a fan of Ptolus, but no it doesn't. We did the analysis over at Monte's board, and at the higher price it does in fact come out to a more expensive item on a per-page basis than most other products.

Ptolus is either 640 pages or 672 pages, depending on where you look for your information. And it costs $119.99. So that's either about $0.19/page or $0.18/page.

Example One: Eberron Campaign Setting is 288 pages, for $39.95. That's about $0.14/page (if you pay full price, which most don't).

Example Two: Arcana Evolved. $49.99 for 430 pages. That's $0.12/page. (At those rates, Ptolus would be $78.12 for 672 pages, or 35% less than Ptolus on an adjusted basis).

Ptolus is in fact more expensive than comparable products, on a per-page basis.

The reasons given for the higher prices were that the binding is more expensive, there is more artwork, there is a CD of stuff, and the number of units printed is lower.

I really want this product. If I can get it from Amazon or another source for less than $100, I will (I personally think it should be about $95). But at $119, I am reluctant myself...and I am a huge fan of Monte, and almost all his products.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I didn't say identical and I didn't say better. I don't consider five cents more a page (and how is there a question about the page count, now that it's out?) a big deal.

If that five cents a page is a big deal to you, get the PDFs.

And, let me say, as someone who's enjoyed a lot of WotC books over the past few years, the actual value of Ptolus is much higher per page than any of them.

EDIT: In addition, if I recall the thread in question from the Malhavoc boards, it relied on the highly suspect decision to exclude all the material on the CD-ROM and the page count of Night of Dissolution. In other words, the math relies on creating the worst possible scenario for cost per page, despite the fact that everyone who buys the book gets the CD-ROM, which contains multiple supplements and books, and everyone who preorders gets the hardcopy Night of Dissolution. I know I certainly consider my copy of NoD as part of what I was paying for.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Basically, all things any good DM would make up on their own anyway...
OR...
Ideas for a lazy DM to "borrow"

Yeah, you're right. I guess I'll send mine back and whip up 700 pages of campaign material this evening, after dinner.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Basically, all things any good DM would make up on their own anyway if they didn't have a life outside of gaming...
OR...
Ideas for a DM who has a social life to "borrow"

FIFY

 

[Mistwell]

I didn't say identical and I didn't say better. I don't consider five cents more a page (and how is there a question about the page count, now that it's out?) a big deal.

If that five cents a page is a big deal to you, get the PDFs.

And, let me say, as someone who's enjoyed a lot of WotC books over the past few years, the actual value of Ptolus is much higher per page than any of them.

EDIT: In addition, if I recall the thread in question from the Malhavoc boards, it relied on the highly suspect decision to exclude all the material on the CD-ROM and the page count of Night of Dissolution. In other words, the math relies on creating the worst possible scenario for cost per page, despite the fact that everyone who buys the book gets the CD-ROM, which contains multiple supplements and books, and everyone who preorders gets the hardcopy Night of Dissolution. I know I certainly consider my copy of NoD as part of what I was paying for.

I think this stuff about disputing that we are talking about an increased price for this book is counter-productive. It's along the lines of the "This is your brain on drugs" ad campaign - you tell people something they know is false, and they are less likely to believe the other stuff you tell them even if that other stuff turns out to be true. In this case, claiming that there was no price increase for this book is likely to result in people not responding well to the part about the quality of this book being worth the increased price.

So, let's really break it down then on the price issue, to put to bed this concept that there was no price increase for this book. That way, people can focus on discussing whether the quality of the content is worth the price increase, which is a productive activity in my opinion.

//

1) You no longer get Night of Dissolution in hard copy. So that is out for purposes of this discussion. You no longer get any extras (except the CD). All that stuff is out. You might have gotten it as a preorder, but as an actual discussion of the value of the book for the people in this thread trying to decide if it is worth buying, that's all stuff that is now irrelevant. In fact, continually mentioning that you got stuff that now people will no longer get, for the same money, is only likely to upset people and make them not want to buy this product.

2) The CD is included. Except for some fluff (some forms, a discount coupon, a chapter to a comic book, a conversion guide for Arcana Evolved) here is what you actually get on the CD: The Banewarrnes adventure, The Nights of Dissolution adventure, and Chaositech. Many people already own that stuff, or have no interest in it (or at least no interest in all three). And if you did want some of those items, they are actually really cheap to buy in PDF format already from Monte. You can buy Banewarrens in PDF format from Monte right now for $6.67, and Chaositech for $6.00, for example. The CD probably has some value for many people, but realistically we are not talking about a lot of money in value, as most people would not have bought the CD if they could have bought this book at a lower price without the CD (and if you were a Monte fan, you likely already own much of the CD as it is).

3) The cost for the book itself. Of course 5 cents per page is a big deal, for an almost 700 page book! We're talking about a more than 1/3 increase in cost for the book, if you compare it to just Monte's own prior release (Aracana Evolved - which if its price formula was used for Ptolus it would put Ptolus at $78.12). Don't let the "cents" valuation fool you. When discussing big books, cost per page adds up to a lot of money - $25 to $42 in this case, depending on wheather you use WOTC or Monte's own prior releases as your yard stick (which is odd, since most of the world operates that if you buy more quantity of something - in this case book content - the price goes down, not up).

Any way you slice it, the increased page count cost for this book means you cannot afford to buy one or two other books (unless you actually actively wanted all three things on the CD in PDF format and planned on buying them anyway in that format if they had not come with this book - in which case it might be barely "worth it" on a quantity basis if you use the lowest possible figure for page count cost). Realistically, we are talking about a meaningful price increase for most gamers. Let's stop pretending it's not a price increase. It is.

//

So it really always comes down to quality of content, because you cannot convince people to buy this book based on the price for the quantity of content (it just doesn't add up on a quantity basis).

I agree with you, from what I have seen so far, the quality is very high - higher than most products. The question is, is the quality SO high that it justifies the increased price? On that front, I think it's going to take some work from folks who have bought this product to explain what in the quality of the content makes it worth the increased price. What is it about the city descriptions, the dungeons, the people, the feats, the prestige classes, the organizations, the special locations, the artwork, the packaging, and the flavor of this book that makes it worth a 35% increase in price over similar products from this same author?

 

[Pierced]

whats the difference between the $119 dollar one and the $10 dollar one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...4620-6968769?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155 nevermind paperback book heh

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

whats the difference between the $119 dollar one and the $10 dollar one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...4620-6968769?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155 nevermind paperback book heh

It's one chapter of the book, for players. It has some very basic information about the world (including a few things that the man on the street has absolutely wrong vis-a-vis the way the world works) but next to no crunch, not even the Ptolus version of the Litorian race (which is a bone I would have tossed the players, myself, since otherwise they'll keep needing access to the Big Book).

EDIT: I was mistaken -- that's the collected edition of the comic book (which is only on its first issue, so it will be delayed in getting collected). RPGShop.com has the Player's Guide for about $3.

 

[Voadam]

You'd have to convince my wife. Even at the discounted price Amazon lists she scoffed. I doubt I'll ever own it unless it comes as a cheap PDF later down the road.

I suspect my wife has a reaction to cost actuator set at around $30.

It comes as several pdfs, some of which have been released already.

The 34 page player's guide is free http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=49_554&products_id=11959&affiliate_id=17596

The 57 page world guide is $6 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=49_554&products_id=11974&affiliate_id=17596

The 55 page book on orgainizations in the city is $6 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=49_554&products_id=11975&affiliate_id=17596

Two tie ins are 112 page chaositech $6 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...ath=49_554&products_id=680&affiliate_id=17596 and banewarrens module 136 page $6.67 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...ath=49_554&products_id=520&affiliate_id=17596

As well as other company tie ins such as Fiery dragon $9 counter set of NPCs http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=49_554&products_id=12499&affiliate_id=17596

And Skeleton Key games' maps such as the $10 full city map http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=49_554&products_id=11900&affiliate_id=17596