D&D 5E What is the Astral Sea according to 5e?

[Guest 7034872]

Honestly it's very easy. The Astral Plane is a thoughtscape that forms out of ideas from the other planes. Matter like spelljammer ships, and creatures that are not astral projecting, that enter into it are still matter. As small bits of actual matter are stated to exist in it.

Then--cash value--it's just another place. I'm trying to make one that isn't.

 

[Yaarel]

Ehh I disagree. The Githyanki are flesh and blood who just planeshift around. Their built their city on the dead god by stealing material from the Material Plane before retreating back to the Astral.

Similarly, I view the Shadowfell as strictly immaterial − a realm of ghosts − a spirit world.

Thus if someone walks thru a portal from the material plane into the shadow plane, the material body actually disintegrates. All that remains is a ghostly virtual body made out of force. This is why it is possible to get trapped in a spirit world − seriously trapped − because there is no longer a material body to exist in the material world. One might still be able to manifest into the material world in the same way a ghost can, but such bodies are ghostly made out of physical force, not matter. One needs to find a portal that is able to magically TRANSLATE between the very different levels of existence.

This the difference between incorporeal and corporeal undead. The incorporeal ones are spirits made out of force. But the corporeal ones are literally dragging around a corpse made out of matter.

Likewise, the feywild is a spirit realm. For example, the eladrin there are fey spirits.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Similarly, I view the Shadowfell as strictly immaterial − a realm of ghosts − a spirit world.

Thus if someone walks thru a portal from the material plane into the shadow plane, the material body actually disintegrates. All that remains is a ghostly virtual body made out of force. This is why it is possible to get trapped in a spirit world − seriously trapped − because there is no longer a material body to exist in the material world. One might still be able to manifest into the material world in the same way a ghost can, but such bodies are ghostly made out of physical force, not matter. One needs to find a portal that is able to magically TRANSLATE between the very different levels of existence.

This the difference between incorporeal and corporeal undead. The incorporeal ones are spirits made out of force. But the corporeal ones are literally dragging around a corpse made out of matter.

Likewise, the feywild is a spirit realm. For example, the eladrin there are fey spirits.

Yeah but that's explicitly not how it actually works. You can change it if you want.

 

[Yaarel]

explicitly

Where?

In the Players Handbook, and similarly the DMs Guide, the explicit text says that the ethereal overlaps the material. The shallow ether is referred to as the "border ethereal". When viewing matter from the ether, its colors are muted and its edges blurry. Force effects can and do affect the ethereal.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Where?

In the Players Handbook, the explicit text says that the ethereal overlaps the material. The shallow ether is called the "border ethereal". Force effects can and do affect the ethereal.

The Shadowfell is not the ethereal Plane. It's a more gloomy echo of the material plane.

 

[Yaarel]

The Shadowfell is not the ethereal Plane. It's a more gloomy echo of the material plane.

The shadowfell is a place where bodiless ghosts dwell. It is immaterial.

The feywild is energized with extreme life and spectacular vibrancy of colors. Inferably, positivity. Despite its hyper vividness, its insubstantiality evidences as distortions of time and space, as well as the mercurial forms of the fey domains of delight.

Oppositely, the shadowfell is deadened with extreme death and quiet gloom, explicitly correlating with negative necrotic damage. Its insubstantiality evidences as decay, deterioration, and oblivion, as well as the mercurial forms of the shadow domains of dread. Time seems to stand still, while things rest and decay.

Importantly, the ethereal plane contains feywild and shadowfell, as well as the material plane. However, where the material plane includes matter, the shadow and the fey are insubstantial, lacking matter. In other words, the fey and shadow are ethereal, except changed by positivity and negativity, respectively. The fey and shadow overlap the material, which can be seen from within these planes, albeit in distorted ways.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The shadowfell is a place where bodiless ghosts dwell. It is immaterial.

The feywild is energized with extreme life and spectacular vibrancy of colors. Inferably, positivity. Despite its hyper vividness, its insubstantiality evidences as distortions of time and space, as well as the mercurial forms of the fey domains of delight.

Oppositely, the shadowfell is deadened with extreme death and quiet gloom, explicitly correlating with negative necrotic damage. Its insubstantiality evidences as decay, deterioration, and oblivion, as well as the mercurial forms of the shadow domains of dread. Time seems to stand still, while things rest and decay.

Importantly, the ethereal plane contains feywild and shadowfell, as well as the material plane. However, where the material plane includes matter, the shadow and the fey are insubstantial, lacking matter. In other words, the fey and shadow are ethereal, except changed by positivity and negativity, respectively. The fey and shadow overlap the material, which can be seen from within these planes, albeit in distorted ways.

Ghosts are part of the ethereal plane not the shadowfell. While ghosts can be found in the Shadowfell, they can also be found anywhere the ethereal plane touches including the Material plane. There is no reason to assume the Material Plane Echos are unsubstantial and not made of matter. They are part of the inner area after all.

But I also disagree with you on the premise that if matter of some sort like say a rock gets plane shifted by magic to one of the outer planes it ceases to be a rock and becomes a thought construct of a rock. It just makes more sense that the rock is still just a rock and magic has allowed it to be in a place it normally would not be.

 

[Yaarel]

Ghosts are part of the ethereal plane not the shadowfell. While ghosts can be found in the Shadowfell, they can also be found anywhere the ethereal plane touches including the Material plane. There is no reason to assume the Material Plane Echos are unsubstantial and not made of matter. They are part of the inner area after all.

But I also disagree with you on the premise that if matter of some sort like say a rock gets plane shifted by magic to one of the outer planes it ceases to be a rock and becomes a thought construct of a rock. It just makes more sense that the rock is still just a rock and magic has allowed it to be in a place it normally would not be.

The astral "dominions" appear to be the same as various "outer planes". They are part of the astral plane.

The Players Handbook describes outer planes as follows. Importantly, there is no "distance" or space for a material rock to exist there. Rocks take up space, and matter takes up space, but there is no actual space. Things are as far or near as the conceptual, semiotic, similarity. The aster is a mind scape, not a physical scape.

"
... The Outer Planes provide direction , thought, and purpose for construction [of the multiverse]. ... When discussing anything ... , the language used must be highly metaphorical. ... Homes are not literally "places" at all, but exemplify the idea that the Outer Planes are realms of thought and spirit. ... One can imagine the perceptible part of the Outer Planes as a sort of border region, while extensive spiritual regions lie beyond ordinary sensory experience. Even in those perceptible regions, appearances can be deceptive. Initially, many of the Outer Planes appear hospitable and familiar to natives of the Material Plane. But the landscape can change at the whims of the powerful forces that live on the Outer Planes. The desires of the mighty forces that dwell on these planes can remake them completely, effectively erasing and rebuilding existence itself to bettcr fulfill
their own needs. Distance is a virtually meaningless concept on the Outer Planes. The perceptible regions of the planes often seem quite small, but they can also stretch on to what seems like infinity.

"

Among the astral dominions, there is no distance, there is no space, there is no "place". It is a "thought" scape. There cannot be matter. A rock of material matter takes up space thus cannot exist there. Only thoughts can exist there.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The astral "dominions" appear to be the same as various "outer planes". They are part of the astral plane.

The Players Handbook describes outer planes as follows. Importantly, there is no "distance" or space for a material rock to exist there. Rocks take up space, and matter takes up space, but there is no actual space. Things are as far or near as the conceptual, semiotic, similarity. The aster is a mind scape, not a physical scape.

"
... The Outer Planes provide direction , thought, and purpose for construction [of the multiverse]. ... When discussing anything ... , the language used must be highly metaphorical. ... Homes are not literally "places" at all, but exemplify the idea that the Outer Planes are realms of thought and spirit. ... One can imagine the perceptible part of the Outer Planes as a sort of border region, while extensive spiritual regions lie beyond ordinary sensory experience. Even in those perceptible regions, appearances can be deceptive. Initially, many of the Outer Planes appear hospitable and familiar to natives of the Material Plane. But the landscape can change at the whims of the powerful forces that live on the Outer Planes. The desires of the mighty forces that dwell on these planes can remake them completely, effectively erasing and rebuilding existence itself to bettcr fulfill
their own needs. Distance is a virtually meaningless concept on the Outer Planes. The perceptible regions of the planes often seem quite small, but they can also stretch on to what seems like infinity.

"

Among the astral dominions, there is no distance, there is no space, there is no "place". It is a "thought" scape. There cannot be matter. A rock of material matter takes up space thus cannot exist there. Only thoughts can exist there.

It’s actual magic, magic can allow a rock to exist there. Also the Outer Planes are not part of the Astral Plane it allows access to them. An Astral Dominion is where you access the Domain of a god or other power that made it.

Also why you putting stuff in quotes?

 

[Yaarel]

It’s actual magic, magic can allow a rock to exist there. Also the Outer Planes are not part of the Astral Plane it allows access to them. An Astral Dominion is where you access the Domain of a god or other power that made it.

The Players Handbook describes why matter cannot exist in a realm of thought.

Heh, of course, "magic" can allow a rock or a spelljammer ship to exist in a realm of thought ... by translating these objects of matter into information constructs that can exist there.

Also why you putting stuff in quotes?

Players Handbook 301-302.