D&D (2024) 2024 Astral Plane

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson

Are you familiar with 4e cosmology?

The 5e cosmology features Feywild, Shadowfell, Elemental Chaos, Astral Sea, Dominions, Domains, Eladrin, etcetera. All of this and more come from 4e cosmology.

AD&D also included Shadowfell(plane of shadow), the astral sea(astral plane), domains, dominions, elemental chaos(para and quasi elemental planes), etc. Those do NOT come from the 4e cosmology. They come from 1e Great Wheel well prior to 4e. All you have is the feywild and and so what. So it added one 4e plane to the mix. That doesn't create a blend of the Great Wheel and the World Axis.

 

[Yaarel]

AD&D also included Shadowfell(plane of shadow), the astral sea(astral plane), domains, dominions, elemental chaos(para and quasi elemental planes), etc. Those do NOT come from the 4e cosmology. They come from 1e Great Wheel well prior to 4e. All you have is the feywild and and so what. So it added one 4e plane to the mix. That doesn't create a blend of the Great Wheel and the World Axis.

...

I am glad you are comfortable with D&D 4e cosmology, and view it as an authentic development of D&D tradition.

 

[Maxperson]

...

I am glad you are comfortable with D&D 4e cosmology, and view it as an authentic development of D&D tradition.

For 4e and for 5e if you engage the alternate cosmology. D&D has a history of adding and removing planes. The only one on your list that 4e added was the feywild and that doesn't put 4e domains or dominions into a default 5e game.

 

[Mecheon]

All you have is the feywild and and so what.

And the Feywild itself is just the Plane of Faerie which has been an on-again off-again one that's shown up. I know it was mentioned in some 3.5E stuff along with other weird planes like the Plane of Mirrors

 

[Maxperson]

And the Feywild itself is just the Plane of Faerie which has been an on-again off-again one that's shown up. I know it was mentioned in some 3.5E stuff along with other weird planes like the Plane of Mirrors

So then 4e had nothing new and there's even less to connect the World Axis to the default Great Wheel of 5e.

 

[Mecheon]

So then 4e had nothing new and there's even less to connect the World Axis to the default Great Wheel of 5e.

How it handled its planes overall was neat, far nicer than the "Yeah we're just seperating folks based on alignment even when they should be vibing together based on their pantheon"

Also Bahamut's giant dimension travelling ships to scoop up lost souls were pretty dang badass

 

[Maxperson]

How it handled its planes overall was neat, far nicer than the "Yeah we're just seperating folks based on alignment even when they should be vibing together based on their pantheon"

Also Bahamut's giant dimension travelling ships to scoop up lost souls were pretty dang badass

Yeah. I'm not making a judgment call on which is better. Both seem good. I'm simply saying that 5e explicitly states that the default cosmology is 5e and there's nothing to think that it mixes the Great Wheel an World Axis together. Instead there's every reason to believe that it doesn't, as it explicitly says Great Wheel = default and World Axis = alternate cosmology.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

The Outer Planes are a subset of astral dominions.

That is a fine idea, but I agree with @Maxperson, that is not what the actual text of 5e says. The spelljammer text does not say the outer planes are dominions, you are making that assumption. You are interpreting it to fit your model. That is fine and good. I actually think that is what D&D is all about, but it is not a literal reading of the available text. But maybe that will change when planescape comes out.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Yeah. I'm not making a judgment call on which is better. Both seem good. I'm simply saying that 5e explicitly states that the default cosmology is 5e and there's nothing to think that it mixes the Great Wheel an World Axis together. Instead there's every reason to believe that it doesn't, sit it explicitly says Great Wheel = default and World Axis = alternate cosmology.

Except the 5e wheel adopted the shadowfell*, Fey wild, and the elemental chaos from 4e. A from spelljammer the idea of astral dominions is a 4e thing. So it seems they are blurring the lines even more between the old great wheel, world axis, and the new great wheel

*the shadowfell predates 4e IIRC, however, how it is constructed in 5e is from 4e

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

AD&D also included Shadowfell(plane of shadow), the astral sea(astral plane), domains, dominions, elemental chaos(para and quasi elemental planes), etc. Those do NOT come from the 4e cosmology. They come from 1e Great Wheel well prior to 4e. All you have is the feywild and and so what. So it added one 4e plane to the mix. That doesn't create a blend of the Great Wheel and the World Axis.

That is not quite true. The names predate 4e, it how they are used in 5e is more like there concept in 4e then previous editions, from what I can tell