What is "The Forge?"

[LostSoul]

I did both of these things at one time, but when I started expanding my worldview instead of narrowing it (as the Forge suggests one do), a lot of the theory and design principle being discussed there no longer made any kind of sense to me.

Cool. So how did you expand your worldview? I'm looking to do the same sort of thing.

 

[mythusmage]

Cool. So how did you expand your worldview? I'm looking to do the same sort of thing.

He started reading Robert Heinlein.

 

[Aaron L]

Jargon has never been coined to inform or convey thought, but to foster an appearance of importance and facilitate the illusion of social superiority. This is one of several reasons why I openly oppose the use of jargon where plain language will suffice.

After reading some of the apparent theory, I was suddenly overcome by a feeling of being crushed beneath old White Wolf style Words With Capital Letters To Make Them Seem More Important Then They Really Are.

 

[Aaron L]

He started reading Robert Heinlein.

Dune did it for me.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I went there a few times, but when I watched Fusangite try and pry information out of them as to what the hell they were talking about (and he is a smart, smart guy) only to get told tht he "simply wasn't able to grasp the fullness of what it all meant" etc. I was stunned.

The fact that their position was that Fusangite wasn't smart enough to understand their precious theory was my biggest clue that they were full of it.

Like, full right to the top.

I mean, they guy is pretty much the smartest person any of us in Vancouver have ever met, he's approaching his PhD, he can speak knowedgeably on most any subject you care to name...

I did take a certain joy in watching him dismantle the theory (getting no fewer than 3 people to claim that the "Gamist" element in GNS theory had nothing to do with Game Elements, and 3 others to claim it did) before he wandered off.

As near as I could figure, the whole thing was a huge circle jerk by a group of people who really, really wanted to matter in the grand scheme of (RPG) things.

That said, I loved Burning Wheel and Kayfabe.

 

[jdrakeh]

Cool. So how did you expand your worldview? I'm looking to do the same sort of thing.

Ironically, most of that came about as a result of focussed private correspondence with former Forge members and other designers who are apparently looked upon with disadain by current Forge members. A bit of email here, a bit of IRC there, PM exchanges, etc. In fact, far more people whom I consider to be influential in the roleplaying industry as a whole post either here or at RPGnet, as opposed to The Forge.

#RPGnet over on the MagicStar IRC network was of particular use to me a few years back (and when the moon is full and the stars are right, you can still catch S. John Ross in said channel). In more recent years, I've talked to a lot of people via the RPGnet PM system, as well as via private email (you'd be surprised how many people are willing to talk to you at length via personal email about their approach to design).

What I've found is that The Forge views on design are, largely, unique to The Forge and its assocaiated entities. The rest of the industry (including the vast majority of non-Forge affiliated independent publishers) is far less concerned with making different games, than with making games that are functional - and guess which design philosophy rules the commercial market? That isn't a fluke.

If you're specifically interested in looking at different design philosophies, you could do worse than to read Bruce Baugh's blog, Sergio Mascarenhas' columns at RPGnet, and Brian Gleichman's columns at the same site. After that, start conversing with people who do design for a living.

[Note: Unlike many of the Forge folks, I haven't published my own RPG. Just so we're clear - I'm not a game designer by profession or an individual of any great importance in the RPG industry. I know and/or converse with a lot of people who are one or both of these things, but that's largely happy coincidence. I'm first and foremost a fan of RPGs, despite having done a tiny bit of work within the industry. I'm certainly nobody's better and if I've conveyed that, I apologize as that was not my intent.]

 

[jdrakeh]

He started reading Robert Heinlein.

Ironically, I've never read any of Robert Heinlein's fiction

 

[Dirigible]

In short, The Big Model is our hobby's equivelent of Dianetics

L. Ron Edwards?

 

[Psion]

Does the term "The Big Model" make anybody else giggle?

More, it makes me roll my eyes.

I've been known to espouse the threefold model myself (though I prefer to speak to the less jargon obfuscated and less biased take of GNSs predescessor, GDS). But I always saw it as just one of a number potential models that you can use to examine a game.

The idea of "one model to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" strikes me as a little to tidy and grandiose to take seriously.

 

[diaglo]

Like, full right to the top.

quoted for truth.

it is a load. and no one wants to change that diaper.