What is your character's AC at 20th level with no enhancements?

[Edena_of_Neith]

This poll is to obtain a general feel on ACs.

What is your character's AC (pick any character of yours higher than 9th level) without:

Magic Spells
Magical Items
Psionics
Psionic Items
Incarnum
Incarnum Items
Spell-like abilities
Granted AC from Divine Power
Granted AC from any other power
Natural AC bonuses unless your character started with them at 1st level

That is, what are your character's ACs with:

Armor (no enhancement)
Shield (no enhancement)
Dexterity
Dodge
The effects of other Feats
The effects of Skills
The effects of other non-magical setups.
The effects of cleverness on your character's part.
Any other mundane, non-magical aspect that improves your character's AC.

 

[shilsen]

The character I posted about on the other thread for 20th lvl AC would have a 12 AC with no enhancements at all. That goes all the way up to 18 AC when on Total Defense.

 

[kigmatzomat]

This poll is to obtain a general feel on ACs.

What is your character's AC (pick any character of yours higher than 9th level) without:
Natural AC bonuses unless your character started with them at 1st level

What about those classes that grant Natural Armor, like Dragon Disciple?

 

[DM_Matt]

I think this is not so great a way to get a general feel for 3e ACs. Enhancements are the norm and the things you include and exclude do not even track with limited AC advantage situations like touch attacks. Maybe you should do a poll that gauges typical AC, or AC without temporary effects (possibly excluding day-long or essentially day-long (hour/level) spells.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

This poll is to obtain a general feel on ACs.

I fail to see how the poll will accomplish its stated goal.

But, for the record, my 9th level character's AC without magic items or enhancements is 20 (full plate + heavy shield, 10 Dex).

 

[TheRelinquished]

The character I based this off of has about 21 AC without magical enhancement, only considering his equipment. But he can raise that to 38 with full defense (+6 [Tumble has 5+ ranks]), Improved Combat Expertise (+10 [Fighter; Good BAB]), and Dodge. Magical items increase this to 41.

 

[Amazing Triangle]

Monking it go higher

I think that with the right kind of classes you can become untouchable, it all depends on what your base scores are. I mean think of a Monk at high level with a High Dex and a High Wis those two together make for a pretty nasty AC but add in the inate bonus for no armor that you get an then you have about 23 min. and if you use the same type of feats mentioned above you get way above 40 (full defensive tumble/combat expertise mentioned above)

 

[Bill Muench]

I fail to see how the poll will accomplish its stated goal.

But, for the record, my 9th level character's AC without magic items or enhancements is 20 (full plate + heavy shield, 10 Dex).

I concur.

The Clr17 who has about AC 65 w/ items would only have AC 21 w/o (+8 from full plate, +2 from heavy shield, and +1 from Dex). The Dervish who can get up to 76 would have AC 46 (+5 mithral breastplate, +2 Dex, +3 Dervish, +19 Improved Combat Expertise, +7 Fighting Defensively w/ Elaborate Parry) plus Dodge and Mobility. So still very good, but he'd have a total penalty of -23 to his attack rolls.

As an aside and harkening back to the other thread, the Dervish could actually get a higher AC if I used polymorph, but for RP reasons he uses alter self and a ring of spellstoring to change into a lizardfolk. So his maximum AC is probably more like 81-82 + Dodge & Mobility.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I do not even know the right questions to ask, as you have adroitly pointed out.
But I'm trying to learn the right questions. I'll get there.

Classes that grant natural armor are fine.

TheRelinquished's post did give me some answers.
Bill's post gave me a new awe of the dervish PrC.

I see improved combat expertise is a very strong feat at high levels. No magic, just a character who is very, very good at defending himself. 20 levels = +20 to AC, if he wants it.
Add in an extremely high dexterity (if he's not wearing armor) and he can add 4, 5, or 6 to that.
Add in dodge, and he can add 1 more.
So, he's up to AC 44 to 47, with no magic at all.

He can't hit anything (at least, unless he has large magical bonuses to hit, to compensate for the loss of his BAB) but he can sure defend himself!
And no anti-magic ray or antimagic shell anywhere is going to take that AC 44 to 47 away from him.

Or let's say he wears heavy armor, because his dex is lousy. He has +7 from half plate (non-magical.) And +2 from his shield. Add in +1 for dodge. Then add +1, maybe, for dex. And then add +20 for improved combat expertise.
Now, he's got an AC of 50 to 51, and antimagic can't take that away from him.
Then he could Fight Defensively, and his AC would rise to 52 to 53.

Remember I'm still translating from a 2nd edition mentality. To me, AC 53 is the equivalent of AC - 23. That's not a bad AC to have, without the help of any magic at all!
If Elaborate Parry adds +4 to AC (as I think it does, reading above) that ups the AC to 57 to 58. And still no magic or psionic aid!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Let's say we have a 17th level character here, and she is a bladesinger 10th.

A bladesinger adds her Bladesong to her AC. This is an extraordinary ability, so it cannot be negated by antimagic shell or a beholder's anti-magic ray.
If a bladesinger got a high enough intelligence, theoretically she could gain a +10 to AC. And she loses no BAB in the process. (Yes, I realize getting a +10 for int wouldn't be easy, without magic. But let's say she somehow pulled it off.)

If she added improved combat expertise to the bladesong style, and she was 17th level, that would be another +17 to AC, in addition to the bladesong style bonus. The two would stack.
If the bladesinger had a high dexterity (likely, for a bladesinger) she'd gain another +4, +5, or +6 to her AC for that.
Add in the standard dodge for +1.
Add in humble leather armor, for another +2.
Then add in fighting defensively, for another +2.

Our 17th level bladesinger would have a non-magical AC of 10 (base) + 10 (bladesong) + 17 (improved combat expertise) + 6 (dexterity) + 1 (dodge) + 2 (leather armor) + 2 (fighting defensively) = 48.
Not bad, for a girl wearing leather armor with no magical enhancements other than a mere extraordinary ability (bladesong) which is not subject to dispelling.