D&D 5E What makes a "full" spellcaster? [Warlock discussion]

[MechaTarrasque]

Maybe the question should be "is the warlock really a mage?" The 'lock can do a lot of neat stuff without having to spend any spell slots. That seems more trickster to me. Happiness is finding the right comparison group: look more at the rogue and the bard (and the monk? I forget if they were fighters or tricksters) and less at the wizard and sorcerer and you will be happier with your warlock.

 

[Mephista]

I wouldn't go that far.

I do. Its amazing how much people underestimate these things and the huge advantage they bring to the table when you play them right.

Why did you think I was talking about Tomelocks?

It applies equally well to Chainlocks.

I'm pretty sure Chain'locks aren't really designed to be eldritch blasters, based on what I've heard around. *shrugs* So, no, I don't think it does apply equally well to chain'locks. But, I guess to each their own.

 

[Ancalagon]

I am concerned by the extreme inflexibility of the level 6-9 slots (can't remember the terminology at the moment). They can only be used to cast one specific spell and that is all. And in many cases the spell lists for those levels have very few general usage spells...

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[Lanliss]

I am concerned by the extreme inflexibility of the level 6-9 slots (can't remember the terminology at the moment). They can only be used to cast one specific spell and that is all. And in many cases the spell lists for those levels have very few general usage spells...

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Yes, you pick a spell when you gain the Arcanum, and stick with that. Personally, I would allow it to be changed like any other Warlock spell.

 

[Satyrn]

Fey gives you an area Charm or Frighten once per rest.

An ability that affects friends and foes! My gnome battlemaster was so terrified, he now has nightmares about the party paladin/warlock.

 

[CapnZapp]

I guess my issue is I'm really biased towards utility/control magic as a play style when being a caster, so I'm chafed by the limitations of the class. But that's obviously because of play-style preference rather than a design flaw.

This pretty much concludes the discussion.

The Warlock isn't a Wizard. Or...

Happiness is finding the right comparison group: look more at the rogue and the bard (and the monk? I forget if they were fighters or tricksters) and less at the wizard and sorcerer and you will be happier with your warlock.

...this.

Of course, if you want utility/control, how about playing a Wizard instead...?

I'm pretty sure Chain'locks aren't really designed to be eldritch blasters, based on what I've heard around. *shrugs* So, no, I don't think it does apply equally well to chain'locks.

You should start listening to some new people then.

 

[mellored]

I'm pretty sure Chain'locks aren't really designed to be eldritch blasters, based on what I've heard around. *shrugs* So, no, I don't think it does apply equally well to chain'locks. But, I guess to each their own.

Perhaps a paticular chain was less spammy, and a paticular tome was more spammy, but in general, chain locks the spammier of the 2.

Tome locks get extra cantrips that compete with eldrich blast. Like vicious mockery, minor illusion, shocking touch, or even shillelagh + booming blade to go into melee.
Chain get's an invisible familiar, which does not take up your action. Meaning more actions devoted to EB.
Still, the difference is pretty minor.



I still find it odd that people consider attacking with eldritch blast to be spammy, but doing the exact same thing with a bow or sword somehow isn't...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I would say 3/4 th caster. As a full caster I expect something like arcane recovery or sorcery points which pushes you over the normal limit.
A bard and even the cleric is usually behind in spells per day.
The warlock with the right invocations though may keep up with full casters.
Our warlock with misty visions and mask of many faces is surely one of the most effective casters in the game.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yes, you pick a spell when you gain the Arcanum, and stick with that. Personally, I would allow it to be changed like any other Warlock spell.

Well, it's not just about changing it every level...

Say a bunch of casters have a single sixth-level slot. The cleric has access to her entire spellist to use it. Immense flexibility (limited somewhat by memorization). But this isn't the best comparison. Let's compare to a wizard.

Let's say that wizard only knows one 6th level spell, same as the warlock. Limiting right? But the wizard could use his 6th level slot to cast a souped up fireball instead (as an example). This is not possible for the warlock. Furthermore, even excluding that, his choices are far better. There are a lot of "multi-use" spells that a wizard has access than the warlock cannot.

I think that of all the full caster, the warlock is, by far, the most restricted when it comes to high level spell flexibility. And that's a bit of a shame.

 

[Lanliss]

Well, it's not just about changing it every level...

Say a bunch of casters have a single sixth-level slot. The cleric has access to her entire spellist to use it. Immense flexibility (limited somewhat by memorization). But this isn't the best comparison. Let's compare to a wizard.

Let's say that wizard only knows one 6th level spell, same as the warlock. Limiting right? But the wizard could use his 6th level slot to cast a souped up fireball instead (as an example). This is not possible for the warlock. Furthermore, even excluding that, his choices are far better. There are a lot of "multi-use" spells that a wizard has access than the warlock cannot.

I think that of all the full caster, the warlock is, by far, the most restricted when it comes to high level spell flexibility. And that's a bit of a shame.

I agree that the Warlock is not the Wizard, that is one of the best things about it. The different restrictions makes them noticeably different classes, otherwise the Warlock would look just like the Sorcerer, a Wizard with a much smaller spell list. They are meant to be restricted to balance off the endless low level spells they get from the invocations, and I feel that the designers did this almost perfectly aside from the change I would make to Mystic Arcanum.