D&D 5E What makes a "full" spellcaster? [Warlock discussion]

[jgsugden]

Sorry, no. There's no amount of creative thinking that makes Arcane Gate a substitute for True Seeing, or vice versa.

They do different things, but there are creative ways to use each in a broad spectrum of circumstances. As a standalone, they do not replace each other easily - but if you took Arcane Gate rather than True Seeing for that MA, you might be well served to have other detection spells in your repertoire via spells or Invocations. If you took True Seeing, you might be looking at teleportation or dimension door spells elsewhere in your repertoire. You need to be creative cumulatively with the choices you make - not just when focused on one choice. If so, the lock in choice behind your Mystic Arcanum is not going to be as significant as people think it is.

 

[Corwin]

Sorry, no. There's no amount of creative thinking that makes Arcane Gate a substitute for True Seeing, or vice versa.

Really? I'm sorry you feel that way. Given your inherent limitations, I'd recommend instead playing a wizard and asking the DM to let you start with access to every spell, so you will always have just the right spell to cast. Then you won't need to worry about being creative or coming up with ways to make do with what you have.

Problem solved.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Given your inherent limitations

Nice ...

 

[Corwin]

Nice ...

You called it, not me. You don't want to make due. You don't want to have to work with the choices you make, but rather have the ability to use whatever you need in the moment. That's called a wizard. Just like I said in my previous post. You seem to actually want the abilities of the warlock combined with the flexibility and breadth of a wizard. There's a phrase for such demands: "You want to eat your cake and have it too."

I alluded to it in an earlier post, but I'll call it now. Given everything you've said in this thread, I believe your OP was misleading. You don't like warlock. You like wizard. You just want to be a wizard, with the cool features given to the warlock, in exchange for the lost flexibility you refuse to relinquish.

 

[Irda Ranger]

You called it, not me. You don't want to make due. You don't want to have to work with the choices you make, but rather have the ability to use whatever you need in the moment. That's called a wizard. Just like I said in my previous post. You seem to actually want the abilities of the warlock combined with the flexibility and breadth of a wizard. There's a phrase for such demands: "You want to eat your cake and have it too."

I alluded to it in an earlier post, but I'll call it now. Given everything you've said in this thread, I believe your OP was misleading. You don't like warlock. You like wizard. You just want to be a wizard, with the cool features given to the warlock, in exchange for the lost flexibility you refuse to relinquish.

Here's an idea: Let's debate game issues without making it personal. I came here to ask what a "full caster" means to you. I've now offered my answer of what I think a "full caster" is. You can disagree with that without attacking my character.

You're also misrepresenting my position.

1) I didn't say the Warlock was a bad class. I just offered why I don't think they qualify to be called a "full caster". And a number of people on this thread have said they also don't think the Warlock counts as a full caster.

2) I'm fine with the few Cantrips known, fewer spells prepared on a given day, and fewer spell slots per day. I think those are reasonable trade-offs for Invocations, Eldritch Blast, and having all your spells at max-level (up to 5). The only thing I realized I didn't like is that you're stuck with picking spells on a by-level basis rather than on a by-day or by-adventure basis like a Wizard or Cleric can.

Here's a question: Is it okay for me to say I don't like a design choice without you saying it shows that I have character flaws? Because it you can't, just walk away now please.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

This should solve the "I want my warlock to be a wizard" issue:

Reform School Wizard: In the course of your wizard studies, you have negotiated a meticulous contract with an otherworldly being of questionable morality.

Contractual Benefits:

When you pick this subclass at level 2, your patron will give you the formula for a warlock spell that you can add to your spell book. The spell will have a verbal component, even if it does not for the warlock. Other wizards cannot copy this spell, since the verbal component involves invoking the contract you made with the patron. You get additional warlock spells at level 3, 5, 7, and 9.

Lead Astray by Bad Companionship:

At level 2, you know the find familiar spell if you don't already know it. Imp, sprite, pseudodragon, and quasit are added to the list of familiars you can summon. They won't fight for you.

Sealing the Deal

At level 6, if you reduce a creature to 0 hit points, you will receive temporary hit points equal to the CR level of the creature. You must complete a short or long rest before using this ability again.

Variant Familiar

At level 10, if you are within 10 feet of your familiar and it has advantage on saves against spells and magical effects, you also gain that advantage.

Invocation

At level 14, you can pick 1 warlock invocation to use. You are treated as a 14th level pact of the chain warlock for purposes of meeting the requirements for the invocations.

Edit: I realized that I only gave out 1 warlock spell (the 1 invocation was on purpose, it should take a while to steal eldritch blast plus agonizing blast), and I meant for it to be a couple of spells. Of course, with EB, hex, armor of agythis (or however that is spelled), arms and hunger of hadar I think 5 spells would cover all the unique ones.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Corwin]

You're also misrepresenting my position.

Am I? Are you sure?

1) I didn't say the Warlock was a bad class. I just offered why I don't think they qualify to be called a "full caster". And a number of people on this thread have said they also don't think the Warlock counts as a full caster.

Well, you got me there. If a few people on the internets think so as well, it must be true. (Psst, what are we doing about all the people in this thread who disagree with your conclusion? What do we make of them and their opinion?)

2) I'm fine with the few Cantrips known, fewer spells prepared on a given day, and fewer spell slots per day. I think those are reasonable trade-offs for Invocations, Eldritch Blast, and having all your spells at max-level (up to 5). The only thing I realized I didn't like is that you're stuck with picking spells on a by-level basis rather than on a by-day or by-adventure basis like a Wizard or Cleric can.

And thus, again, playing a wizard or cleric is the obvious choice. Problem solved. Will your next thread be about the unfairness of totem barbarians having to lock in their animal totems? What if a scenario comes up where a 6th-level barbarian needs to be able to see far away, more than their improved carry capacity? But they chose bear totem. Why shouldn't they be able to switch out bear totem one day for eagle totem the next? That way they have the tool they need for the job...

Here's a question: Is it okay for me to say I don't like a design choice without you saying it shows that I have character flaws?

Absolutely. But is it equally okay for me to contrast that with the very first sentence from your OP?...

First off I want to say I LOVE the Warlock class design.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Excellent!

But what if I want my wizard .... to be a warlock?

Even easier! Just play a Tomelock with the house rule that he can also record non-ritual spells to his Book of Shadows, and change his spells known upon completing a long rest.

If you're feeling really freaky, allow his Patrons to be "The Necromancer", "The Alchemist", etc. (instead of Fiend, Archfey, or Great Old One) and take the wizard sub-class features at the appropriate level.

 

[mellored]

At level 6, if you reduce a creature to 0 hit points, you will receive temporary hit points equal to the CR level of the creature. You must complete a short or long rest before using this ability again.

That's a good way to get past the bag-o-rats issue.