What makes Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter so good?

[FrogReaver]

Nope. You can take variant human if you like. You said chose the level. I did. Now it is your turn. Or make it level 4. I take +2 str.

Level 4 it is. I'll post analysis when i get back to my desktop this evening

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Level 4 it is. I'll post analysis when i get back to my desktop this evening

But not both human and level 4. Or actually, you may do it if you only chose feats.
I am really looking forward to that build.

 

[FrogReaver]

But not both human and level 4. Or actually, you may do it if you only chose feats.
I am really looking forward to that build.

I'll do a half orc for sure. If time permits I'll do a human with 2 feats at level 4

 

[Ashrym]

Of course there are circumstances when more defense will be better. But when the totality of cases get considered it will be found lacking. That's mostly due to the fact that the defensive abilities of a GWM fighter are still very similar to the defensive abilities of a non-GWM fighter. AC within 1-2 and hp nearly the same as well. While the offensive abilities of GWM fighter vastly outclass non-GaWM/SS fighters

Except I haven't found defensive builds to be vastly inferior.

Generally, it's 2 AC for the shield, 1 AC for the fighting style (because the offensive builds take the offensive fighting style), and shield master (because feat for a feat). If we include feats and fighting styles for offensive forms then we include feats and fighting styles for defensive forms. A magical shield increases that gap if it's included. The evasion like ability that comes with shield master is much better than not evasion type abilities.

I don't disagree that there's a lot of damage out of GWM and SS. That's why I had a house rule to improve TWF as a style if a fighter wanted to go that route. If the argument is that "not all fighting styles are created equal" then I support that argument.

In my experience, S&B is viable in 5e. Try a high level dex fighter with shield master. If he's champion he can have defense and dueling fighting styles. Dueling has the same benefit of bonus damage through multiple attacks (even if it's a smaller bonus, tbf) as other abilities. If you want, skip shield master and use defensive duelist instead. 2-3 AC difference plus prof bonus to AC once per turn if as needed is better than the 1-2 AC to which you referred.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'll do a half orc for sure. If time permits I'll do a human with 2 feats at level 4

Thank you. Actually I do believe that gwm is a strong feat. So I wxpect a slight damage bump at the cost of more volatility.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

the totality of cases favor the offense provided by SS and GWM more than the defensive options. That isn't to say here is no case where defense can be better. It's just there's vastly more cases where offense is better than cases where defense is better

Again, I don't think you have enough information to say that for certain. This is D&D. There is no 'totality of cases' because the DM can always introduce a new case. There is no finite number of monsters you might fight, or finite combination of them.

One area where offense probably beats defense is when it comes to solo boss fights. If your DM has a lot of those, then offense is probably the right choice. If your DM doesn't include many solo monsters, and instead favors large groups of weak monsters, it probably shifts in the other direction. But again, there are too many variables to say anything for certain.

 

[Istbor]

Hmmm... what makes Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter so good?

I think the fact that it triggers so many people on this forum. That gives me the most enjoyment. That these two feats can cause so much consternation and cause some to discuss until they are blue in the face.

That, and it makes hulking brutish warriors and snipers seem extra cool.

 

[FrogReaver]

Again, I don't think you have enough information to say that for certain. This is D&D. There is no 'totality of cases' because the DM can always introduce a new case. There is no finite number of monsters you might fight, or finite combination of them.

One area where offense probably beats defense is when it comes to solo boss fights. If your DM has a lot of those, then offense is probably the right choice. If your DM doesn't include many solo monsters, and instead favors large groups of weak monsters, it probably shifts in the other direction. But again, there are too many variables to say anything for certain.

Are you suggesting that it's simply a matter we can't have knowledge on? Or are you asserting hat defens is on par with GWM offense? Because if the first is your point then that thought equally undermines the notion that defense is better or on par.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Are you suggesting that it's simply a matter we can't have knowledge on? Or are you asserting hat defens is on par with GWM offense? Because if the first is your point then that thought equally undermines the notion that defense is better or on par.

It's going to vary from encounter to encounter, and DM to DM. In some campaigns, the available options for increasing defense will give better results than investing an equivalent amount of resources into offense. There's simply no way to know with any reasonable degree of certainty.

 

[FrogReaver]

It's going to vary from encounter to encounter, and DM to DM. In some campaigns, the available options for increasing defense will give better results than investing an equivalent amount of resources into offense. There's simply no way to know with any reasonable degree of certainty.

Sure, on "any given Sunday" anything can happen. Just because the best team in the NFL in a given season can get beaten by the worst on any given Sunday doesn't mean we can't know which team is better with a reasonable degree of certainty. The same thing applies here. Just because there are enough variables present that some combination of them can allow the defensive option to be better at a specific time doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable degree of certainty about which option/team is generally better.