D&D 5E What makes the Lucky feat so good?

[Blue]

I was reading a thread about homebrew feat costs, and Lucky was in the same highest tier as SS and GWM. There's been a lot of discussion back and forth about the later two, but Lucky seems to be more of a solid choice then an overpowered choice.

Among the friendly gang of optimizers that is a good chunk of my FLGS's AL league, I can't point out that I have any memories of it in play. And they are usually quick to leap on things that are good, but also most play is in the 5-12 zone so maybe it's a great feat to take after you've already maxed your prime ability score and taking any defining feats. But that right there would put it lower then tier 1.

I can see from a reading that it's strong, can you share your practical experiences seeing it in play? I'm sure it's got some great stories around the perfect skill check, about misses turning to hits or foe crits negated, or missed saves. But is is consistently good every session?

(Just for normalization, if your table averages less encounters per day, can you say that. Just because I can see it stronger when there's less rolls per day.)

Thanks!

 

[Krachek]

I have seen one character with the Lucky feat.
He call himself a lucky dwarf.
Not broken.
Great role play opportunities, because the DM was asking each time the second role succeed, how luck have change the result.
We were using a several encounters a day.

 

[iserith]

In my Planescape game, I gate feats behind faction membership. If you join a faction, you get access to certain feats. Otherwise, feats aren't an option for your character. To get the Lucky feat, you have to join the Xaositects, a group that revels in chaos. Chungus, the half-orc barbarian, joined the faction in part due to access to that feat. Also, he's a crazy hillbilly.

He uses Lucky only to avoid something disastrous or to ensure that he can pull off the exciting, memorable thing he has in mind. In the last session, the party was doing battle on the Infinite Staircase. Chungus was doing an end run to get at a sorcerer sniping the party from a defensible position. Along the way, he raised the ire of a vrock who started chasing him and dive-bombed him with a cloud of spores. He failed that save and, knowing that he didn't want to get nailed with ongoing poison damage which he couldn't resist when he went into a rage, he used Lucky to succeed. Once he got close to her, she blasted him with a gust of wind to knock him off the platform - a 200-foot fall! He botched his Strength save and, faced with 20d6 damage coming his way, he got Lucky and succeeded. Later, the party was fighting a blackguard possessed by a shadow demon (with the ghost Possession trait). Once they had thrown a beating on the blackguard, knocked him prone, grappled him, and put some manacles on him, the shadow demon left the blackguard's body and tried to possess Chungus. Again, he botched the Charisma save and started to feel compelled to run off the platform to his likely demise. But he used his final Lucky for the day and managed to succeed.

For the record, that adventuring day had 7 encounters, including one that happened after he had blown all of his Luck points.

 

[5ekyu]

I was reading a thread about homebrew feat costs, and Lucky was in the same highest tier as SS and GWM. There's been a lot of discussion back and forth about the later two, but Lucky seems to be more of a solid choice then an overpowered choice.

Among the friendly gang of optimizers that is a good chunk of my FLGS's AL league, I can't point out that I have any memories of it in play. And they are usually quick to leap on things that are good, but also most play is in the 5-12 zone so maybe it's a great feat to take after you've already maxed your prime ability score and taking any defining feats. But that right there would put it lower then tier 1.

I can see from a reading that it's strong, can you share your practical experiences seeing it in play? I'm sure it's got some great stories around the perfect skill check, about misses turning to hits or foe crits negated, or missed saves. But is is consistently good every session?

(Just for normalization, if your table averages less encounters per day, can you say that. Just because I can see it stronger when there's less rolls per day.)

Thanks!

In my experience with it in other systems, same basic thing a handful of free rerolls after the roll is made - etc... Unless there are a lot of encounters with lotsa checks (importsnt checks) luck becomes too much a "almost never fail check that matters" thing and thats huge.

Additionally, it hits every possible aspect of play... It can be defensive, offensive, utility skill, social skill, perception, initistive...etc. Whenever you think it matters.

It gives you a big bump whenecer needed or wanted with its after the roll advantage.

I dont allow it in my 5e games.

 

[Krachek]

All lucky character have great story to tell.
But they dont tell the ones they have been unlucky.
Re-roll a save DC 17 with a +2 bonus, is not an auto-success.
But for check that really matters there is already Aid another, inspiration, Guidance.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Turning Disadvantage into super-Advantage is probably its most powerful feature.

Apart from that it's very flexible. It can shore up weakness like Low AC, lack of Save proficiency and/or low stat.

It also has universal appeal. A caster may want Warcaster before lucky, but most likely they still want lucky over GWM or Martial adept.

I don't consider it OP or ban it, but it is very solid.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

How many attack rolls do you attempt in an adventuring day? How many of those attack rolls fail by exactly one point? How many attacks rolls do you fail in an adventuring day?

By my estimates, Lucky should statistically make a larger difference in accuracy than you would gain from improving your ability score. Two attack rolls per round, times three rounds per encounter, times six encounters per day, equals 36 attack rolls per day. A bonus to hit of +1 will only matter one time in twenty, which means it only turns 1.8 misses into hits every day. Assuming a base accuracy of 2/3, the ability to re-roll three attacks per day will turn two misses into hits every day.

That makes the feat very close to increasing your Strength, right off the bat. The Strength boost also increases your weapon damage by about 10%, and provides a bonus to trivial saving throws. Of course, the one attack per day that it turns into a hit might occur during an easy fight, where you don't care if you miss. With the feat, you can choose to only use it when it matters. And you also have the option of using it on an important saving throw, if you really need to. Altogether, that probably gives the edge to Lucky over just increasing Strength.

Dexterity gives a much greater benefit than Strength, so Lucky probably doesn't beat Dexterity for a Dex-based fighter... but some rogues also make fewer than two attacks rolls per round, which increases the relative value of a re-roll.

Mostly, though, it doesn't matter whether it's better than a stat boost because they aren't in competition. You can max out your primary stat by level 8, and take this feat to give you a power boost that's roughly on par with your primary stat, and walk around with effectively a 22 in your primary stat. The basic problem with allowing feats in the first place is that it allows you to effectively exceed the 20 limit for your primary stat if there's a feat that synergizes well with your character build, and the Lucky feat synergizes well with like half of the classes in the game.

 

[5ekyu]

How many attack rolls do you attempt in an adventuring day? How many of those attack rolls fail by exactly one point? How many attacks rolls do you fail in an adventuring day?

By my estimates, Lucky should statistically make a larger difference in accuracy than you would gain from improving your ability score. Two attack rolls per round, times three rounds per encounter, times six encounters per day, equals 36 attack rolls per day. A bonus to hit of +1 will only matter one time in twenty, which means it only turns 1.8 misses into hits every day. Assuming a base accuracy of 2/3, the ability to re-roll three attacks per day will turn two misses into hits every day.

That makes the feat very close to increasing your Strength, right off the bat. The Strength boost also increases your weapon damage by about 10%, and provides a bonus to trivial saving throws. Of course, the one attack per day that it turns into a hit might occur during an easy fight, where you don't care if you miss. With the feat, you can choose to only use it when it matters. And you also have the option of using it on an important saving throw, if you really need to. Altogether, that probably gives the edge to Lucky over just increasing Strength.

Dexterity gives a much greater benefit than Strength, so Lucky probably doesn't beat Dexterity for a Dex-based fighter... but some rogues also make fewer than two attacks rolls per round, which increases the relative value of a re-roll.

Mostly, though, it doesn't matter whether it's better than a stat boost because they aren't in competition. You can max out your primary stat by level 8, and take this feat to give you a power boost that's roughly on par with your primary stat, and walk around with effectively a 22 in your primary stat. The basic problem with allowing feats in the first place is that it allows you to effectively exceed the 20 limit for your primary stat if there's a feat that synergizes well with your character build, and the Lucky feat synergizes well with like half of the classes in the game.

And thats just combat

Now toss in a key athletics check, persuasion or intimidation check or a failed concentration check or death save 1!!!

To me most feats and asi tend to apy to one or two areas... Lucky is not only strong mechanically but also hits every pillar and your primaries.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

And thats just combat

Now toss in a key athletics check, persuasion or intimidation check or a failed concentration check or death save 1!!!

I've never seen a skill check that was literally life or death, but it gives you the option, and options never make you weaker. If you ever fail a skill check which is less important than an attack roll, you can always just choose to not re-roll that.

 

[5ekyu]

I've never seen a skill check that was literally life or death, but it gives you the option, and options never make you weaker. If you ever fail a skill check which is less important than an attack roll, you can always just choose to not re-roll that.

I have seen skill checks that were as important as an entire combat... As in their success or failure more or less can determine if a combst occurs - stealth, intimidation/deception, climbing or athletics etc.

So, its all about the situation and the fact that lucky can apply in any situation is huge to me in my ecperience.

The best "aspect" of luck type mechanics was actually in systems where it was tied to excellence. Essentialky you gained rerolls in lieu of bigger bonuses after a point, so it kept the luck limited to the scope you were supposed to be good in.