What role has the Incarnate played? (from Magic of the Incarnum)

[Maniac]

Hello all!

I recently purchased Magic of the Incarnum and while I generally like the book I can't seem to get a grasp on what the Incarnate's role in a party is.

Versatility seems to be its biggest strength but power wise it just looks weak. It looks like it could be a backup fighter or skill guy but it lacks any major blasting or healing(others) powers. The use of Magic Item spaces for soulmelds might really be a problem at high levels.

If anyone has used this class (or Incarnum in general) I would like to hear your experiences.

I did a search and most of the detailed threads are from a year ago when the book first came out. I am hoping with a year to try it out there is some good insight.

Thanks.

M.

 

[bento]

MerricB is either playing one or is GMing a game with one.

I too have the Magic of Incarnum, but will probably use it first for NPCs before allowing my players access to the options. There's a big world for them to explore and I can definately see them stumbling across some of the classes / races in the future.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Hello all!

I recently purchased Magic of the Incarnum and while I generally like the book I can't seem to get a grasp on what the Incarnate's role in a party is.

Versatility seems to be its biggest strength but power wise it just looks weak. It looks like it could be a backup fighter or skill guy but it lacks any major blasting or healing(others) powers. The use of Magic Item spaces for soulmelds might really be a problem at high levels.

If anyone has used this class (or Incarnum in general) I would like to hear your experiences.

I did a search and most of the detailed threads are from a year ago when the book first came out. I am hoping with a year to try it out there is some good insight.

Thanks.

M.

They have a few good offense powers. One that allows you to spit a glob of acid as a standard action (touch attack) that inflicts d6 points of damage per essential invested. They can actually get heal other capabilities, through absorbing wounds from others and pumping essential into whatever the mantle is that riases the HP they recieve froma cure spell (and using wands). Its not flat out healing, but its incredibly efficient resource use after battle.

You probably arent going to be a star character in many situations, but you will contribute in virtually all. You're like a better bard, without the singing. The incarnate is a potent class with genuine flexibility. They are a bit weaker, but not much than a more so, than a focused class. Unlike the binder, which is falsely touted as a flexible class (all the flexibility of a vancian caster with a small spell list!), the incarnate actually can adopt different roles during the day.

Just ditch the silly visual effects. No one wants their character to conjure a three faced cartoon mask over their face. It makes even Yu-Gi-O characters laugh at you.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Actually, i'm a bit worried about incarnum users.

See, i have a player in my game who has expressed an interest in playing one.

Now, I'm a kind GM, and allow practically anything at the table, as long as they have the book, and I get to look the race / class / feat over to approve it first.

I'm not very strong at mechanically fiddling with NPCs for min/maxing potential. And one of the big things that worries me is that the Incarnum user never has to hit much more than a 10-14 AC. (since nearly all their attacks are ranged touch)

Now, High Dex enemies seems like one possible solution, and adding deflection bonuses or % miss chances is another, but the hardest part is making it so that enemies can be equally dangerous to the Incarnuym user AND the rest of the party, without delving into the realm of the 31+ AC too early (one of my former GM's dived headlong into that realm, even arcane casters had AC's in the mid thirties. Of course, he was also a horrible cheat)

Could anyone recommend to me various forces which Stack with base AC to make a NPC harder to hit by ranged touch?

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

We have a 13th level incarnate PC in my current campaign (His previous PC died and he chose not to ressurrect...strangely enough this occured at around the same time MoI was released- go figure :\ )

But anyway- power-wise, he's okay- he's a melee combatant and perhaps doesn't quite match up to the paladin PC, but he's by no means useless either. Some of his powers seem very cool. At the moment he's pretty much working through the options for his soulmelds to decide which he likes best.

He did have problems at first figuring out what his role should be, but now he's got used to playing the PC it's all working out nicely.

 

[Maniac]

They have a few good offense powers. One that allows you to spit a glob of acid as a standard action (touch attack) that inflicts d6 points of damage per essential invested.

They can actually get heal other capabilities, through absorbing wounds from others and pumping essential into whatever the mantle is that riases the HP they recieve froma cure spell (and using wands). Its not flat out healing, but its incredibly efficient resource use after battle.

I missed that one on my read through. Sounds good.

You probably arent going to be a star character in many situations, but you will contribute in virtually all. You're like a better bard, without the singing. The incarnate is a potent class with genuine flexibility. They are a bit weaker, but not much than a more so, than a focused class. Unlike the binder, which is falsely touted as a flexible class (all the flexibility of a vancian caster with a small spell list!), the incarnate actually can adopt different roles during the day.

Do you think the Incarnate makes a good 5th party member or can it actually be a replacement of one of the characters in a standard party?

M.

 

[Maniac]

We have a 13th level incarnate PC in my current campaign (His previous PC died and he chose not to ressurrect...strangely enough this occured at around the same time MoI was released- go figure :\ )

But anyway- power-wise, he's okay- he's a melee combatant and perhaps doesn't quite match up to the paladin PC, but he's by no means useless either. Some of his powers seem very cool. At the moment he's pretty much working through the options for his soulmelds to decide which he likes best.

He did have problems at first figuring out what his role should be, but now he's got used to playing the PC it's all working out nicely.

Has he been able to aid in anything outside of combat?

M.

 

[MerricB]

I'm not very strong at mechanically fiddling with NPCs for min/maxing potential. And one of the big things that worries me is that the Incarnum user never has to hit much more than a 10-14 AC. (since nearly all their attacks are ranged touch)

Actually, the Incarnate's attacks are either melee touch (lightning gauntlets) or ranged touch (dissolving spittle) or normal melee (incarnate weapon). They actually don't have many attack forms.

Melee touch requires them to be in combat, and is once/round for perhaps 5d6 damage by 8th level. (Compare to a fighter who may be dealing 1d8+8 twice, and it's comparable).

Ranged touch is interfered with by Cover and In Melee status. AC 18+ is not fun with a wizard's base attack. Greg uses another soulmeld to give himself precise shot, but 5d6 acid damage at a range of only 30' isn't a problem. (8th level, again).

Acid or electricity resistance or immunity *really* mucks up the incarnate. Ask Greg. He's been fighting Green Dragons recently.

I've now run Greg's NG Incarnate for 20 sessions (levels 1-8). It's been a really great character. The balance of the character has been superb. It doesn't overshadow the other PCs, but they miss him when he's gone.

At 8th level, Greg has five soulmelds, which he's chosen as follows:
* Dissolving Spittle (occasionally Lightning Gauntlets) - major attack form.
* Airstep Sandals - allows him to fly 40' as a move action, though he must end his move on the ground. We've been playing a lot in the snow recently, and this allows him mobility around the battlefield. (Watching the 15' move halfling trying to get around has been painful, however)
* Sighting Gloves (bound to arms) - give him Precise Shot.
* Theraputic Mantle - the party doesn't have a cleric, rather a bard and a druid. This allows Greg to make exceptional use of what little healing the party has. A cure minor wounds heals 7 hp!
* Lifebond Vestments - Greg functions as the major healer of the party; 1/hour (for each PC) he could heal 19 hp by taking 10 damage himself; really, this acts as a major focusing act for cure light wounds in combination with the Mantle

Incarnates can substitute for the Fighter or Rogue of the group. They're not good enough to be the cleric (in particular, they lack access to restoration-type spells), although if they acquire some wands or scrolls, their ability to bind Mage's Spectacles and thus gain Use Magic Device at a reasonable level will suffice. They don't have the mass attack forms the Wizard brings to the table.

In addition to running the Incarnate, I've run a Totemist for about 8 sessions, and a Soulborn for about 12 sessions. No balance problems there.

Outside of combat, Greg has access to nearly every skill if he chooses the right soulmelds. (The combination of Truthseeker Goggles and bound Theft Gloves would make him a good Rogue). In surprise situations, he can use the Rapid Soulmeld ability to swap out one of his 'melds for another. He used this to good effect when the party found himself on a boat without a captain... He swapped in Seafarer's Bracers and suddenly had Profession (sailor) at +9 or so, enough to see them safely to shore.

The use of Magic Item spaces for soulmelds might really be a problem at high levels.

Note that only if you bind a soulmeld does it kill the magic item slot; normally it just overlaps. If you really need that slot for both, there is a feat that allows such.

Cheers!

 

[Agent Oracle]

*lots of intelligent, brilliantly written statements*

I see... That all makes perfect sense, and completely answered everything I was asking... AND it assured me that my worries were for naught!

Thank You MerricB!

 

[D.Shaffer]

I dont really know much about the Incarnate class from play experience, but I have been playing a Scout/Totemist for a bit now. One thing I've found out through hard experience is that it pays to focus on a role. The various melds can give you a wide range of abilities, and it's tempting to mix and match, but this spreads your abilities out a bit to far. We (The Incarnate and Totemist) tend to do very well in skill intensive roles. Additionally, we have many melds that give immunities/bonuses against certain attack forms, so if we know we're going to facing a particularly critter and know what it can do, we can be very effective vs it in combat.

I tend to focus as the party scout, so I tend to chose melds that enhance my spot, listen, move silent, and hide skill checks. I'm better then the party rogue in some ways because of this.