Tranzquility
First Post
well would you be kind of enough to explain to me how the CRs work with more then one monster because how i understood it from the dm guide is you total the cr togeather.....
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
What should pcs have and what should they fight
- Thread starter Tranzquility
- Start date
The encounter level is +2 every time the number of monsters doubles.
For example, if 1 lizard man is CR 1, encountering
1 lizard man : EL = 1
2 lizard men : EL = 3
4 lizard men : EL = 5
8 lizard men : EL = 7
16 lizard men : EL = 9
and so on...
7 lizard men is almost EL 7. The problem was probably more the overabundance of magical items in the party than the number of lizard men.
Oh, that's right, they want to be called lizardfolk now, right ? Lizardfolk, then.
As to the Retriever, it's CR 11, right ? So one retriever is a level 11 encounter.
If your party has normal gear for their level, an encounter 5 levels above their own level will be very very tough. They might win, if both lucky and careful, but they will probably lose one or two characters even if they do. Normally, an encounter of 4 levels above your own is a 50/50 thing, so this encounter would be even tougher. And that's if it's their only encounter for the day and they are well-rested. If it's encountered after a couple of normal fights, they will probably all die.
Finally, if you want a demonic encounter of CR 10, I'd suggest a Bebilith demon, since they have an ability to destroy the armor of their target. But that's still very tough. You might let them fight a bebilith with their current gear. This would give them a chance AND remove a few of those +3 armors/shields.
At that level, if the party's gear is scaled down to appropriate levels, a pair of Babau demons (CR 6, so two of them is a level 8 encounter) would be appropriate for "bosses".
For example, if 1 lizard man is CR 1, encountering
1 lizard man : EL = 1
2 lizard men : EL = 3
4 lizard men : EL = 5
8 lizard men : EL = 7
16 lizard men : EL = 9
and so on...
7 lizard men is almost EL 7. The problem was probably more the overabundance of magical items in the party than the number of lizard men.
Oh, that's right, they want to be called lizardfolk now, right ? Lizardfolk, then.
As to the Retriever, it's CR 11, right ? So one retriever is a level 11 encounter.
If your party has normal gear for their level, an encounter 5 levels above their own level will be very very tough. They might win, if both lucky and careful, but they will probably lose one or two characters even if they do. Normally, an encounter of 4 levels above your own is a 50/50 thing, so this encounter would be even tougher. And that's if it's their only encounter for the day and they are well-rested. If it's encountered after a couple of normal fights, they will probably all die.
Finally, if you want a demonic encounter of CR 10, I'd suggest a Bebilith demon, since they have an ability to destroy the armor of their target. But that's still very tough. You might let them fight a bebilith with their current gear. This would give them a chance AND remove a few of those +3 armors/shields.
At that level, if the party's gear is scaled down to appropriate levels, a pair of Babau demons (CR 6, so two of them is a level 8 encounter) would be appropriate for "bosses".
Last edited:
Tranzquility
First Post
okay i understand that all i am wanting to know is.......
.....if they lose there magical items can they handle a cr 10 on there own ?
.....if they lose there magical items can they handle a cr 10 on there own ?
Tranzquility said:
I edited my previous post to answer this.
Short answer is "probably not".
Basically, an encounter of equal level to the party is no real risk, but the party should expend about 1/4th of their ressources (hit points and spells, mainly).
An encounter 1 level above the party is tougher, but still manageable. It will only expend more ressources.
An encounter 2-3 levels above the party is tough and people might die if not careful. They are more suitable to boss encounters.
An encounter 4 levels above the party is very tough. It means that the monsters are evenly matched with the PCs and is about a 50/50 chance for total defeat.
An encounter 5 levels or more above the party means that the party is outclassed and is meant to teach them that it is a very good idea to memorize the Monster Manual so that their characters can recognize the danger and flee the encounter on sight.
If this the information you were asking for ?
Last edited:
Rystil Arden
First Post
If they lose some of their items and get knocked down to the baseline, they should be able to defeat a CR 10 demon (assuming that they are smart about it and haven't lost their strategising ability from having all that magic before), but victory will not be certain, even if they are well-rested. If they aren't well-rested, they will be in big-trouble, and the same goes for if they lose all their items (further down than the baseline).Tranzquility said:
Oh, I just thought about something. If the encounter is "theorically" too tough for the PCs, it's possible to make it fair anyway by giving the PCs an extraordinary advantage just for this encounter. This might take the form of allies for that battle, a weapon meant especially to fight this monster, very good information about its weakness, a terrain advantageous to the PCs and so on...
Darth K'Trava
First Post
I've been in a party that, on a regular basis, wiped out critters that were 4 levels higher than they were..... There were some critters that, with a lucky hit, wiped out half the party.... (one that came with Vorpal bite). So things can have a potential of getting nasty real quick!
If you're going to throw, for example, lizardmen at them, then up their CR by giving them class levels. Make them level 4 or 5 fighters, mages or clerics..... that'd make them think twice when they think, 'oh, it's just lizardmen..... ::snore:: we can mow these guys down right quick and move on....'. Or change the alignment of critters who are normally evil to being something like CG.... I have a DM who I found out that have CG kobolds and a CG orc cleric of Pelor...... Not to mention a "helpful" drow female (who it seems our Peloran cleric has fallen hard for..... 
). Personally, I'm waiting for the backlash of that..... :\
If you're going to throw, for example, lizardmen at them, then up their CR by giving them class levels. Make them level 4 or 5 fighters, mages or clerics..... that'd make them think twice when they think, 'oh, it's just lizardmen..... ::snore:: we can mow these guys down right quick and move on....'. Or change the alignment of critters who are normally evil to being something like CG.... I have a DM who I found out that have CG kobolds and a CG orc cleric of Pelor......
Not to mention a "helpful" drow female (who it seems our Peloran cleric has fallen hard for..... ). Personally, I'm waiting for the backlash of that..... :\Doubling monster numbers only doubles EL from EL 2 up BTW, 2 CR 1s make EL 2, 4 make EL 4, 8 make EL 6 - your 7 lizardmen were EL 5.
I suggest _maybe_ steal or destroy an item or two, but don't overdo it, and severely cut down on treasure until the PCs are more in line with what they should have, ie around 11th level. If it won't harm your game I'd let them kill the big CR beasties and level quickly to 11th without much loot, then go from there as a balanced game.
Personally I tend to be on the stingy side - a 17th level PC IMC was excited recently to get his hands on some +5 Full Plate, which is only worth 26650gp.
I suggest _maybe_ steal or destroy an item or two, but don't overdo it, and severely cut down on treasure until the PCs are more in line with what they should have, ie around 11th level. If it won't harm your game I'd let them kill the big CR beasties and level quickly to 11th without much loot, then go from there as a balanced game.
Personally I tend to be on the stingy side - a 17th level PC IMC was excited recently to get his hands on some +5 Full Plate, which is only worth 26650gp.
Kalendraf
Explorer
Ouch - looks like you've handed out some uber loot to those level 6 characters. I did that in my first 3e campaign, and I saw problems with properly challenging the party. They'd mow thru stuff that was EL+1 to EL+3 above their level w/ barely a scratch. I used several pre-published adventures and failed to realize that the listed treasures had over-rewarded the party.
As a result, the group wound up with too good a loot and was overcoming things too easily. It made them cocky, and eventually they fought something too hard and it wound up as a TPK. Magic loot still didn't overcome they were only such and such a level.
I'd recommend scaling back the treasure until their level catches up with their loot. You can use the DMG's suggested gear value to figure out what level that is. The other option is to find some way to destroy or steal some of that uber gear. If you have them face some high level monsters that use subdual damage, they could get captured, get their loot taken away, yet still be alive to adventure on. And it would give them an reason to track those guys down eventually. Depending on their alignment and who they serve, you could also have the king or high priest contact them to relinquish their uber gear for some noble purpose and replace all of it with +1 items.
As a result, the group wound up with too good a loot and was overcoming things too easily. It made them cocky, and eventually they fought something too hard and it wound up as a TPK. Magic loot still didn't overcome they were only such and such a level.
I'd recommend scaling back the treasure until their level catches up with their loot. You can use the DMG's suggested gear value to figure out what level that is. The other option is to find some way to destroy or steal some of that uber gear. If you have them face some high level monsters that use subdual damage, they could get captured, get their loot taken away, yet still be alive to adventure on. And it would give them an reason to track those guys down eventually. Depending on their alignment and who they serve, you could also have the king or high priest contact them to relinquish their uber gear for some noble purpose and replace all of it with +1 items.
Similar Threads
