What would you do with these Orcs?

[mhacdebhandia]

Since orcs aren't, like demons, made of the metaphysical substance of Evil in the standard D&D world, then it's inappropriate to kill orcish children.

I say "children" specifically because I don't believe that D&D orcish women would be any less inclined to learn how to fight than D&D human women - I don't really believe that the standard D&D world would distinguish much between women and men, because the rules don't.

Anyway, forget that. Orcs are evil because their culture is evil; orcs not brought up in that culture, or those rare specimens (sigh, like a certain scimitar-wielding drow ranger) who arrive at a conscious objection to their culture, would not be evil, and even an orc brought up in that culture all her life is theoretically redeemable.

Given that, this hoary old chestnut can be safely dealt with. Truly good characters - whether of exalted status (or closest equivalent) or not - will do all they can to make sure that the orcish children survive and turn from the path of evil that their culture would set them on.

Those characters who are neutral or not exemplars of moral conduct can probably get away with making sure the orcish children won't starve to death, administer a threatening admonition against going evil, and be on their way.

If you're a very moral character and you're making the decision to completely devastate an orcish tribe, you have a responsibility to do it, well, responsibly, and that means cleaning up afterward - including making sure that the largely neutral human villagers on whose behalf you're likely to be fighting don't mistreat or enslave the orcish children if your solution involves leaving them even temporarily in the village's care.

That would make an interesting follow-up for a campaign interested in exploring moral questions - what do you do upon returning from your travels to find the orcish youths being brutally worked in the fields under the eye of whip-wielding human farmers? No easy way out when you decide to wipe out an entire tribe.

Of course, arguably, you shouldn't be wiping out the whole tribe if you're that good - it's preferable to only kill as many of them as you need to make them agree to negotiate their withdrawal from the area and their promise not to simply go and ravage the fourth village over, then you have the responsibility of making sure somehow that they keep the deal . . .

 

[jasper]

Since I run more of black and white type game. Paladins would be executing the mommys, daddys, kiddies, aunties, and uncles.
However if I were going to insert Orville Oscar Perry Samwise the Orc. The paladin who get a heads up phone call before hand.

 

[MichaelH]

After I was wondering what the community here would do if placed in such a posistion by their GM?

Kill the orcs, of course, and then turn on the GM.

 

[diaglo]

GM's- Ever done this to you players? How did they react?

i'll just agree with Snoweel and hong. it is campaign specific.


in my campaign. orcs are chaotic. orc women too. orc babies also.

so the orc women would attack or flee from the invaders (PCs). and probably die in the defense of their homes. the babies would flee or hide or seek revenge later if they survived.

that doesn't change the fact that they are acting like they should.

the PCs should likewise act according to their morals.

no good deed goes unfinished or unpunished.
it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

[Thanee]

I would leave them. I'm good-aligned. I don't slaughter helpless (*) victims.

(*) As in actually helpless, not the D&D term helpless.

However, I'd expect the women to fight, actually. They are orcs, after all. Isn't fighting like their meaning of life?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kalendraf]

I actually used something similar in one of the first adventures of my current weekly campaign. I ran the adventure "Evil's Lesser Minions" which features goblins rather than orcs. The party dispatched all the male goblins, leaving the female and children to fend for themselves. They thought that would be the end of it...

Instead I used it as a nifty plot hook. Soon after finishing the module, I had the highest ranking female approach the party's human bard. "You kill acting chief. He stupid hobgoblin we no likes anyways. But you kill all males too, so none left to lead. By conquerer right, you be new chief of Brokenfingers clan. You lead tribe now." Jaws dropped...

Turns out the Brokenfingers tribe is slightly less evil than other goblin tribes, and are known more for stealing than killing. They'd recently been displaced from their ancestral home in the nearby hills and then suffered thru a tribal rift for control leaving half the tribe splitting off to join a rival clan and this half living under the city of Mellisan. The bard and party eventually helped them reclaim their ancestral cave and helped solve the rift in the clan as well.

Since then, the bard has been visited and aided twice by the goblin trickster god, and the bard has even found a goblin relic - a magical morningstar once used by a famous goblin bard. A seer has twice referred to the bard as "the goblin chief", and there are other clues that more goblin-related stuff is on the way.

My suggestion is if the party leaves a monster alive, run with it. They can easily make good recurring villains, but depending on the situation and how the party treats them, they could also make potential allies as well.

 

[Snoweel]

(*) As in actually helpless, not the D&D term helpless.

So you're not talking about the kind of victims that are treated as having a Dexterity of zero?

 

[Thanee]

Basically meant non-combatants, those who cannot properly defend themselves, like children. I think helpless is a bit misleading there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ogrebear]

Since orcs aren't, like demons, made of the metaphysical substance of Evil in the standard D&D world, then it's inappropriate to kill orcish children.

Orcs are evil because their culture is evil; orcs not brought up in that culture, who arrive at a conscious objection to their culture, would not be evil, and even an orc brought up in that culture all her life is theoretically redeemable. Given that, this hoary old chestnut can be safely dealt with. Truly good characters - whether of exalted status (or closest equivalent) or not - will do all they can to make sure that the orcish children survive and turn from the path of evil that their culture would set them on.

Very interesting comments.

I wonder if Orcs taken out of the CE cultre described in most of the D&D game worlds could change their ways?

If removed from the influance of the grown up males and Shamans (who seem to be the root of the 'problem') could a colony of Orc women and children grown up to be differant? Hows about under the influance of a Lawful society/monestry/church?

Could you have Lawful Orc legions marching for good in a few generations?

OR

Are Orcs fundamentally evil (like Tolkein seemed to suggest) and therefore fundamentally they will revert to type (due to the God's influances?) no mater what anyone does?

 

[Ogrebear]

I actually used something similar in one of the first adventures of my current weekly campaign. I had the highest ranking female approach the party's human bard. "You kill acting chief. He stupid hobgoblin we no likes anyways. But you kill all males too, so none left to lead. By conquerer right, you be new chief of Brokenfingers clan. You lead tribe now." Jaws dropped....

Sorta reminds me of that Babylon 5 episode where Ivannava (sp) defeated te leaders of two sides in a civl warto stop the chaos on the station only to end up in charge herself......

Sounds like you have a bunch of intelligent players willing to give situations away from the norm a go.

Did the players have to deal with any Tribe members who disliked their rule or did they make any chances to the way the Tribe(s) works?