I've been away from the game for awhle but will be starting up a new 4th edition campaign tonight with a few close friends. Naturally I've been browsing a number of forums and new products to get a feel for what's new since I left. (Right before Essentials was released IIRC)
Welcome back!
Now there's been some animosity towards 4th edition since before it was ever released, that's normal with every new edition, but the amount of hate I've come across on this and other forums seems to be at a level I've never seen before. So I've been searching to find out why and I'm still confused. Here seems to be the main issues I've come across in some form or another so far:
If there's more hate now than before you left, it's because 4e has outgrown its first few euphoric years. It happens with every edition: love, familiarity, hate and then the next edition is born.
Essentials Fallout
This was what I imagined to be the culprit before I even left the last time. I myself was wary of what Essentials was going to do to 4E, but from what I've seen so far it really does seem to be an option for 4E which you can easily leave out of your campaigns. For myself, I'm happy to leave it in if my players want to try out one of the class variants as the CB seems to be able to take care of all the dirty work for me.
So my question here is: Was it really that bad? Did it kill 4E?
No, and no. Honestly, I don't like Essentials and I don't allow it in my game, but it's not the antichrist that some 4e gamers make it out to be. The idea that it's 'killing' anything is preposterous.
DDI Support
I've been playing around in my DDI Toolbox since I've returned getting a feel for what's changed. I'm a little disappointed that the CB & AT's are online only now. I'm quite irritated actually by the removal of the "Copy to RTF" function the Monster Builder allowed me before which made converting modules/monsters so much easier.
The consensus seems to be that the newer versions have less functionality than the old... and? Anything else? I agree this is disheartening but not enough to generate so much hate? Right?
You would think, wouldn't you? I don't think the CB transition is doing 4e any favors though.
4E is Dead - 5E on the horizon?
For one reason or another, this usually goes un-defended but people simply claim it's dead in passing as if it's a foregone conclusion. Occasionally people chime in to say they're expecting 5th edition to be coming out sometime in the next year or two so they've lost interest in 4E.
I just don't understand this kind of position at all, but it's really part of the reason I've made this thread, to get a better idea of why people think the game sucks so much nowadays.
It's just part of the edition treadmill. Gamers are constantly demanding new material, so TSR/WotC gives it to them. But there's only so much material they can write before ideas start drying up and gamers start complaining.
Editions are like spouses; no matter how sweet they are at the start, eventually some of those endearing little habits become annoying. And with the divorce rate how it is...edition hate and change is inevitable. That said, 4e won't be replaced for a few more years. "5e is right around the corner!" is either wishful thinking or doomsaying.
<Insert your pet system here> is so much better so 4E sucks
I'm by no means a D&D fanboy. I've thought about trying Pathfinder, as I have a fondness for the 3.x ruleset and that edition of D&D got the most play out of me of all previous editions. If anything I'm attracted to their adventure paths so I've thought long and hard as to whether I'd be willing to switch over. I like both systems. I'm not sure if it's taboo around here but I really like 4th edition's powers system but I'm also nostalgic for the 3.x days. I just don't have the time for two systems though with work, family and all my other hobbies so I really think the most likely outcome here is me converting adventure path stuff to 4E in the long run.
I know what you mean. I play 4e almost exclusively, but I still love to tinker with 3e. As if I can finally fix it, if I find just the right house rules. It's a sick love-hate relationship.
Anyway, PF's success won't 'kill' D&D either. In a few years, Paizo will come out with a new PF edition -- which will probably be an actual new game. (Because honestly, PF is a D&D [sub-]edition in all but name.) Just one more rpg publisher; nothing worth arguing over.
Final Thoughts
I guess what I'd really like to hear is some constructive criticism on why 4th edition "sucks". If you used to play what made you stop? If you're thinking of leaving the system or have found yourself playing less lately why is that? (Only if the reason relates to some aspect(s) of the system that you don't like please.)
Nothing anyone can say will make me change my mind at this point, that's not what I'm looking for with writing this but I am really interested in getting and overview of how WotC has handled this edition and the details on what people dislike the most.
I play my own 4e
clone-compilation, which is less different from 4e than PF is from 3.5. But since you asked, here are the major fixes I've added to correct what I don't like about 4e:
Feat taxes are replaced with expert bonuses. (If you're one of those who believes the math was just fine before Taxpertise, it's a simple matter to say "no expert bonuses in my game".)
Instead of racial stat boosts, every class gets two training boosts. I don't like players feeling pigeonholed by that first line of every race entry.
Saves are rolled on the
attacker's turn, and bonus saves can end most effects. (Even UENT effects.) This makes (save ends) consistently better than UENT.
I added an inherent bonus rule that consistently works.
I replaced hybriding and MC feats with my own MC feats that combine the best of both.