What's the benefit of Pinioning Vortex?

[Kwalish Kid]

Would you mind explaining how? Daze+Immob are powerful, but not if they're explicitly not in effect during the monster's turn.

The important thing is moving the monster out of the way and ensuring its location at a given time. This pretty much ensures that other PCs will be able to pull off a planned combo against the creature when it comes down.

It's also good for a wizard who waits to interrupt a special attack he or she knows is coming. For example, the shadar-kai chain fighter has an ability to slide around the battlefield and attack different targets. The wizard could wait until one of the chain fighters began to slide and then isolate that chain fighter with pinioning vortex.

 

[Cadfan]

The important thing is moving the monster out of the way and ensuring its location at a given time. This pretty much ensures that other PCs will be able to pull off a planned combo against the creature when it comes down.

That doesn't work. The monster comes down at the beginning of its next turn. That means this power guarantees that the monster will begin its next turn in the square its in now.

Well, unless the monster has special powers that allow it to move outside of its regular turn order, its ALWAYS going to start its turn in the same space its in during the wizard's turn.

The only real special tactical use is a readied action with a trigger that occurs during the monster's turn, hopefully denying it the ability to do anything worthwhile.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

That doesn't work. The monster comes down at the beginning of its next turn. That means this power guarantees that the monster will begin its next turn in the square its in now.

What did I write? "The important thing is moving the monster out of the way and ensuring its location at a given time." The monster is moved up, out of the way for the next actions of the PCs, unable to take OAs, and will come down in the same spot, unless that spot is filled.

Perhaps you do you not play 4E, but this can be quite powerful in that game.

 

[Cadfan]

No, you're not getting what I'm saying.

This spell "ensures the monster's location at a given time" by pinioning it in exactly the same spot that it would have been had you not pinioned it. The only way this is not true is if the monster has the ability to move outside of its turn.

It does move the monster out of the way momentarily. But it only ensures the monster's presence in the same space that it was already in. Doing nothing also ensures the monster's presence there, barring a few rare abilities.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

No, you're not getting what I'm saying.

This spell "ensures the monster's location at a given time" by pinioning it in exactly the same spot that it would have been had you not pinioned it. The only way this is not true is if the monster has the ability to move outside of its turn.

It does move the monster out of the way momentarily. But it only ensures the monster's presence in the same space that it was already in. Doing nothing also ensures the monster's presence there, barring a few rare abilities.

You are assuming, I guess, that the spell is cast outside of the creature's turn. However, if a caster readies their action for when the crature either attacks or begins to move, then this spell becomes much better. Even if cast outside of the creature's turn, it clears the creature away and allows free movement beneath it.

 

[Mistwell]

And you can ready an action for when the monster "moves" back down to the ground. So one character can ready the spell itself for when the target moves on its turn, sending it into the air. Others can then attack, while it is in the air. And finally, others can ready for when it moves back down to the ground. Pretty powerful stuff.

 

[Cadfan]

And you can ready an action for when the monster "moves" back down to the ground. So one character can ready the spell itself for when the target moves on its turn, sending it into the air. Others can then attack, while it is in the air. And finally, others can ready for when it moves back down to the ground. Pretty powerful stuff.

No, its not.

Readying an action for when the monster returns to the ground is like readying an action for the beginning of the monster's turn. You could have done that anyways, and in any case, you could have just attacked the monster in the first place.

Attacking the monster while it is in the air doesn't do much. Unless the monster had cover or something on the ground, attacking it in the air is the same as attacking it on the ground. This attack dazes, which is good, but that's about all it contributes.

This power isn't worthless, its got good (for a wizard) single target damage and it inflicts a series of status effects that amount to a bizarro version of prone. Which is ok.

Which is what this power is. Ok. It is an ok power if you want to mildly inconvenience a monster.

I'm not sure if people are getting this wrong, but they might be, so for the record: a readied action is an immediate reaction, not an interrupt. So if you ready this spell in response to a monster attacking, it still gets to land its attack. It just loses the rest of its turn. Again making this power almost identical in result to knocking a foe prone, costing it a move action, and allowing it to attack.

 

[Mistwell]

No, its not.

Readying an action for when the monster returns to the ground is like readying an action for the beginning of the monster's turn. You could have done that anyways, and in any case, you could have just attacked the monster in the first place.

You cannot ready an action for when a target attacks and expect your readied action to interrupt the attack. However, you can ready an action based on any movement, and the target moves to the ground at the beginning of his turn thus providing a new opportunity for a readied action.

I'm not sure if people are getting this wrong, but they might be, so for the record: a readied action is an immediate reaction, not an interrupt. So if you ready this spell in response to a monster attacking, it still gets to land its attack. It just loses the rest of its turn. Again making this power almost identical in result to knocking a foe prone, costing it a move action, and allowing it to attack.

Well, I think not only do we get it, but that was in fact the point. You CAN ready as effectively an interrupt using this spell, because it provides events other than an attack to ready off of.

 

[Cadfan]

You cannot ready an action for when a target attacks and expect your readied action to interrupt the attack. However, you can ready an action based on any movement, and the target moves to the ground at the beginning of his turn thus providing a new opportunity for a readied action.



Well, I think not only do we get it, but that was in fact the point. You CAN ready as effectively an interrupt using this spell, because it provides events other than an attack to ready off of.

I was referring to people who seem to think that this power can be used on the turn of the enemy in order to lift him into the air and deny him the ability to attack. That would only work if the enemy did something in its turn before attacking or charging, because otherwise they'd get to complete their action before getting Pinioned. Its possible to stop someone from attacking with this power, but its very tricky, and works under basically the same circumstances as a power that knocks someone prone.

As for the utility of reading actions to beat an enemy like a pinata when this power releases and drops them to the ground... good luck? Anyone capable of readying an attack against a pinioned enemy so as to trigger when they return to the ground would also have been able to actually attack the same enemy had he never been pinioned in the first place.

 

[Regicide]

I was referring to people who seem to think that this power can be used on the turn of the enemy in order to lift him into the air and deny him the ability to attack. That would only work if the enemy did something in its turn before attacking or charging, because otherwise they'd get to complete their action before getting Pinioned. Its possible to stop someone from attacking with this power, but its very tricky, and works under basically the same circumstances as a power that knocks someone prone.

Trigger your action on the event of the monster's turn starting, not on an action.